The PMF Program should have completed the in-person assessments today. Up to this point, I've been mostly silent on the issue because I didn't want to risk influencing the assessment process. Now that it's finished, I think it's fine for everyone to share their experiences and talk more freely about how they think they did. Include as few or as many details as you are comfortable sharing.
The next update, the one where we find out who is a finalist, will be sometime in January. In the mean time, let's hear from you all.
I wasn't really sure what to expect before the interview. Now, after it is done, I am not really sure what to expect when the list comes out in January. It all seemed very odd to me during the interview. I wasn't comfortable to just sit there and speak without really getting any type of response from the panel since they were just writing constantly and not even making eye contact.
ReplyDeleteNow my finals are done for the semester and I need something to keep my busy until January 24th. Good thing the holiday season will keep my mind off it the next couple weeks.
Besides our interview scores, I wonder if there are selection criteria beyond how we were rated. (i.e. major, school, etc.) Good luck to everyone!
ReplyDeleteI am curious about this also. I wonder what if any other criteria there is for selection, or is it really just straight up numbers from our interviews with a cut off between finalists and not. And whether our online test scores come into play anymore either.
ReplyDeleteThe interview was much like finals. Feel like I could have an A or have failed miserably.
As for time killing, my friends recommend Skyrim or any of the other video games that have just come out. The new Zelda will take up most of January for me. Just looking to relax in my final 4 week winter break.
I'm assuming/hoping that the school we attend doesn't play a role. Seems like that would unfairly discriminate against very talented people at less well known schools. Also, since we were specifically told not to mention our schools during our interviews, I would guess that's not part of the selection process.
ReplyDeleteI've also wondered whether our online test scores would still be important, or if they were just for the first round of elimination.
I think from what I heard from other PMFs and read online that our resumes aren't looked at until we actually start applying for jobs. I can't remember exactly where I heard that, so it might not be accurate!
The more I've thought about my interview, the more uncertain I am of how I did. It was very disconcerting to just sit there talking without much feedback at all from the interviewers. Like Fozzie said, I feel like I could have done fantastic, of it could have been a epic failure. Guess we'll find out in about a month and a half!
Last I heard we were told to expect the list of finalists towards the end of January (24th?) is that what others have heard as well?
I feel like the first responder...really didn't feel comfortable not getting any feedback at answers. my interview was a month ago, so WAY too much time to think about it, and when I do I keep thinking of things I should have said. I'm using planning my wedding as a distraction =p
ReplyDelete@annie I heard Jan 24th too. Anyone else's application manager switch back to awaiting results now?
I also left feeling I did O.K. but did not hit it out of the ball park. I was the last of the 5 to start and the last to leave. I don't know if I took longer or if it was just by a few minutes longer than the others. I also did not take notes...the others were taking copious notes but I took none. We were not going to take them with us, so I did not see the need.
ReplyDeleteMy interview was one of the last days, so at least I don't have to wait as long as those who had their interviews in November. Good Luck everyone and Happy Holidays!
I had mixed emotions about the interview as well. I think for the questions being so general and actually being given to us before hand, I had adequate responses. Although, the second I left the room I reflected and realized I didn't at all incorporate any of my responses to the actual PMF position or how it could enhance my goals, what I could bring... In fact, I don't think once did I mention the program, or what I hoped to get out of it.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the lack of response and feedback I was ok with since at least when I walked out I still felt like I had a chance. lol.
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ReplyDeleteI didn't mention the PMF program at all in my answers, hadn't even occurred to me actually. I pretty much kept my responses directly related to the questions they asked.
ReplyDeleteI'm still confused on why we brought pencils ;)
ReplyDeleteSo wait, they told you to bring pencils, but then you never used them? Classic.
ReplyDeleteIf it is any comfort, I heard from a current PMF who was doing interviews that they, as interviewers, were specifically instructed NOT to show any reaction to the interviewees. So it wasn't because of what you said that they didn't make eye contact or respond but a function of the process.
ReplyDeleteI'm actually relieved to know that others did not add PMF info too. All of the questions were directed on past behaviors/experiences it would have been challanging to do. Although for me personally, I think it would have enhanced my interview (or at least how I feel I did at the interview), even if I just said, "My past experiences prepared me for adapting/diversity/problem solving... that is necessary for the PMF position."
ReplyDelete@pmfellow: Yes, we were told to bring pencils and then they provided us and I think, required us to sign the form in black ink. Lol
@Annie, we were told not to mention our schools but were allowed to tell them our majors if it integrated into an answer somehow. I'm curious if any of you actually did mention your major.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I've read, my understanding of the process is that finalist selection is based solely on interview scores. I do know however, that the PMF office has been working hard to broaden the type of students who apply to the program. For example, earlier this year the CIO.gov website announced that they were starting a "technology fellows" program which would target & utilize technology/computer science PMFs from this year's group of applicants. The class of 2011 shows only 1 finalist who lists their major as technology and 1 who lists their major as computer science. I believe we will all agree that the majority of students applying to the program fall within the law/public admin/public & international affairs/policy fields. Because the PMF office doesn't publish majors for nominees or semi-finalists, it is difficult to formulate an accurate hypothesis, but I believe it’s plausible that applicants are also weighted partially by major in order to help diversify the PMF program. In my opinion, the likely reason for the low number of finalists in majors such as Technology, English, Communications, Anthropology, Geography, etc. is because very few applied in the first place.
I know this will vary, but think for a minute about how much non-solicited information you received about the PMF program from outside of your primary department. For most of you in the primary applicant majors, I would guess that this would be little to none. Applicants from minority majors likely received little to no information on the program from their primary department, while learning about the program through alternative means. Hypothetically if this were true, minority degree applicants would be much less likely to consider a career in the government, much less know of the program's existence.
Because of the economy, I could very easily see almost 7500-8500 applicants from the primary majors applying to the program this year, with several hundred to one thousand minority majors applying as well. Assuming the government wants to have viable major specific PMF programs such as "technology fellows," they will need to ensure that they have a viable number of technology finalists, hopefully more than two for this class, seemingly making it more likely that they would pass to the finalist stage. Also, it can be argued that a diverse degree field of finalists adds to the quality of the program as a whole, making it more likely that other minority major semi-finalists would be more likely to advance as well.
I am interested to hear other people's opinions on my very unscientific assessment, and look forward to the discussion (if any) on it.
I did wind up mentioning my major, because one of my "stories" was about a challenge I had in doing my thesis research. It would have been a very weird response if I had not mentioned my major (though I did not spend a lot of time on stating it).
ReplyDeleteI'm like others, I don't really know how I did. I don't think it was an epic failure, but I definitely did not walk out feeling like I had nailed it. I'm working on finishing up my thesis and being proactive about applying for other jobs in the meantime...I figure more applications in elsewhere will make a rejection from PMF less of an issue.
I'm amazed at how quiet this thread has been!
ReplyDeleteI agree, Rebecca. It has been quiet. I assume that because everyone had fairly similar experiences, people feel they don't bring anything new to the discussion. At least, that's the way I've felt.
ReplyDeleteOn another note, @PMFellow, I've been looking at the PPS and noticed one announcement that has been on there since August. Do you have any insight as to why a job would be open that long with so many 2011 finalists still looking for a position?
I haven't said anything yet because I don't feel as if my experience was very blog-worthy. I definitely agree with the other posters about not feeling very confident about how I performed, but I'll even go a step further to say that I feel I didn't do well. I felt nervous, and as if my answers were canned and completely uninteresting. I didn't like the time constraints, and I felt that always speaking about things we had done in the past (rather than ideas and aspirations for the future) didn't allow for much creativity or personality. It seemed...very bureaucratic, which I suppose I should have expected. But, as I've mentioned, I was nervous and I felt unprepared for those types of questions.
ReplyDeleteA bit off topic from the interviews, but are you all actively applying for other jobs right now in case the PMF thing doesn't work out? I don't graduate until mid-May, so ideally I'd like to start a job at the beginning of June. Most of the job openings I've seen have been looking for someone who can start sooner than that.
ReplyDeleteI'm starting to get anxious waiting for the email that will notify us about our finalist status. Staying busy during finals week and over the holidays helped me not dwell on it too much, but now I'm getting impatient.
I agree with Mum B and others that I don't feel my experience was anything to be confident with. I think I answered two of the questions very well and another was mediocre. Then there is one of them that I feel like I fell flat on my face. I know we had been given time to 'prepare' but my mind went blank trying to come up with a past experience.
ReplyDeleteI did mention my major as it pertained to one of my answers but I made sure not to mention my school.
@Annie - I have been looking for other positions since I also graduate in May. I haven't had very much like finding anything, even part time during this semester. I am hoping I get some positive results because this is looking like the best opportunity as of right now.
Mine was a little different, I was able to draw my interviewers out of their shells a bit and by the time I left they were smiling and laughing with me not at me...
ReplyDeleteI was perplexed about the pencils as well.
Perhaps the technology fellows are not to be assigned specifically to Computer science majors only but also to people like myself with several years of experience in IT industry but a degree in Business Admin.
Best of luck to all that have made it this far!
In response to Annie, I can say that I have been applying for other jobs since I was named a semi-finalist. I want the PMF more than these other jobs, but I need to do my best to guarantee my employment come the end of May.
ReplyDeleteI also find that applying for work keeps the mind busy, and off the idea of waiting, and doing something proactive makes me feel better about myself. I would love to stop applying for things in a few weeks, but like the rest of you, we will all just have to wait and see.
well, i've been dwelling on my interview since I went. It's really my dream to get this. my friend who interviews candidates for a teaching fellowship said that she was taught to give points for short verbatim phrases that they are looking to hear, e.g. "because it saves me time". who knows what the pmf judges were looking for, but I sure hope I had it. good luck to you all.
ReplyDeleteGiven the average of finalists being 835 and semi-finalists being around 1500 and there being 1200 semi-finalists does that mean there will be an average of even fewer finalists? Or our chances have been improved?
ReplyDeleteGivn the political climate and the budget slashing, i am guessing that means less finalists ... unfortunately.... but that is only my guess. i have no other data than the news.
ReplyDeleteMy guess is less finalists as well, based mostly on the poor budget. I'm currently working for the gov't in a student position and we pretty regularly get emails about how tight funding is. The other scenario that seems likely to me is the same number of finalists, but fewer positions open for them. But- that's not based on any actual facts, that's just my guess.
ReplyDeleteOPM is soliciting bids from vendors for the career fair, it will be held no earlier than 27 February, 2012 and no later than 13 April 2012.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=1fc2ffbc9e67ebc26e947d037c6d31cb&tab=core&_cview=0
Do you guys think we'll hear by the 24th? I saw that this was asked on the facebook, but there has not been a response posted yet.
ReplyDeleteI don't know, but, for the record, this has to be one of the most boring threads that pmfellow has seen. I try and check every day to see if there's something interesting or informative on here to help with the anguish of just waiting, and I'm sorry to say that this particular thread has not come through for me. :)
ReplyDeleteI've been wondering when we'll hear too... I saw in a press release that's on the PMF website they just said we'd be notified by the 'end of January'-http://www.pmf.gov/news-events/2012-pmf-application-update.aspx
ReplyDeleteIt'd be nice if they would give us some sort of update on the Facebook page
And I agree, this has been a very boring thread! Especially compared to the thread last year while everyone was waiting to hear back on their results!
This may have been discussed earlier and I just missed it, but is there any data out there on how the 2011 PMF Finalists have done and what percentage was successful finding jobs through this program?
mum b, i think i saw that 50% of finalists were appointed. i do agree as well about this thread being fairly uneventful! out of curiosity i was looking at last year's thread too... and we absolutely do not compare haha.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the current activity level here (in terms of comments) is reflective of this year's timing or if it's due to something else. Looking at site traffic, the pattern is fairly steady at between 400 and 600 visits per day. For the month so far, I'm sitting at just above 8,000.
ReplyDeleteHistorically, both site traffic and comment frequency rise as we approach the results date, especially if there is a perceived delay. As a comparison, I looked back at spikes in traffic from the month prior to any significant event, and here's what I see (this is according to Blogger's stats; I can also look at Google Analytics to get a more granular or targeted picture):
Monthly visits for Feb 2011 numbered 12,000, while visits for March numbered 80,000. That's just over 6.5x. December 2011, which is the month preceding the NOR for this year's finalists, topped out at just below 12,000. As the month proceeds, I am certain others will become curious enough about the results to start searching. I anticipate similar traffic for the same stage of the process this year. Along with increased traffic is increased comment activity.
All this is to say it will probably start picking up around here pretty soon. :)
I think that "end of the month" could be interpreted as the 24th. If the PMF office believed that it would be another week before the finalist results are ready, they probably would update the timeline on the website to reflect that. By the way, did anyone notice that the semi-finalist section of the PMF website has been updated to remove the link to the semi-finalist list? It also gives the exact number of nominations, 9,077, which is slightly less than last year I believe.
ReplyDeletePMFellow- from your observations, how would you describe the average personality of a PMF? I am guessing that is one of the things they were looking for in the interview.. whatever that personality is. You either "got it" or you don't, i guess.
ReplyDeleteI am like many of you, I do come over an scan the thread 2-3 times a week, post very little. For me and maybe others adding speculation and theories just heightens the anxiety of waiting. Like others have said they are looking for other positions too, no one should invest all of their energies into just this one position.
ReplyDeleteI personally was selected for another federal fellowship position which was similar to the PMF position although only one position for one year. I unfortunately had to turn it down because they notified me before Christmas and I had to start by the end of this month and just couldn't move my family, workout school... in such a short amount of time. So it does add a little more tension in hopes I am selected for the PMF. But still if not I wouldn't be heartbroken nor should anyone else.
To respond to others that were commenting about if there will be more or less positions this year, I wanted to just add my thoughts. Being in the military and working as a civilian in federal service I have seen that it is easier to justify hiring more temporary workers like PMF's than hiring for a person for a permanent position. Temporary are willing and usually do a great job with lots of motivation and drive and if the budget is cut or funding is not available they are the first to be let go without any legal ramifications or added costs of separating a permanent employee.
ReplyDeleteTo give you an example of this is that my husband (also prior military) in his undergrad. took a scholarship with the NSA his senior year a straight forward obliserve type of thing, they pay a year of school you owe them a year or two of work. So he had graduated December 2010, which meant he should have started Jan-Feb 2011, he signed a contract not to search/obtain any other job but found out he wasn't going to be "hired" right away because of a hiring freeze. The end of May 2011 he started as an "intern" for the position that he was suppose to have with employment lasting NLT December 2011. Well his contract was extended another year till Dec 2012 as an "intern" while still he has the obli-serve contract yet to start.
In this case it has worked out for us, he started and will be finishing his masters while he is waiting to be hired by an agency - which will now have to hire him at at least 2 levels up.
Anyone have any comments, agree or disagree with my thoughts?
Well it seems to have become less dull here pretty quick as I check in about every other day hoping to see anything, cause like some others of you I am also wondering if/when OPM will say for sure when we will know, and then hope that they don't have the semi-finalist snafu of blank emails.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure though how much easier it is to get pmf positions in a department or agency. I think some systems such as interns and things might not be as affected by the cuts (118,000 federal jobs in the last few years) as each agency has to pay up front to be able to participate in the chance to land any of us in the future, and I don't think that a program like this can just cut you before your two years is up, and since we are really being given this opportunity as a part of succession planning, it wouldn't make sense to cut us before we are done. So any agency that wants to hire a PMF has to be able to make the full commitment to money and time.
But this is only my point of view. I just know that I don't know how well I would react if the announcements were delayed or if they were delayed to a vague date. I am still applying for other jobs almost every day, but my last semester has just started, and I would like to be able to focus on my classes one way or another.
also as a final thought, I did my interview in Denver, and one of the staff there said I picked well, as everyone there was so laid back (which seems to be a Denver thing) and that the interview would be more relaxed and they would be nicer, friendlier and easier to get your answers across too. I kind of found that to be the case, and I wonder if any of you who went to the more busy cities with more interviews found different types of personalities of if the interviewers were more tired and easily annoyed or uninterested after doing so many more. (Denver had like 60ish people, while DC for example had the bulk it seems)
back to waiting.
Fozzie, I was wondering the same thing about interviews - I interviewed at Denver and they were very nice and easy to talk to, contrary to what some people experienced in another thread(I am assuming they went to DC). Though for me the difficult thing is that being a finalist is only the beginning since after that you have to find a position (which may or may not happen). Good luck to everyone!
ReplyDeletePersonally I think that if you are a finalist and want to get a position you will get one. I think many of last years finalists that didn't find a position chose not to, and likely found something else, or because of personal reasons found themselves unable to relocate to another town and chose not to pursue it any further. Which also made me wonder how many semi-finalists never went to their interview due to the date, changed their mind or found the travel cost prohibitive if they didn't live all that close to a testing location.
ReplyDeleteThere was a large difference in finalist to job offer between different majors. Law school grads had under a 40% job offer acceptance rate and public administration had over 70%, and the rest fall in between at either 45 to 55. Lets just say that my curiosity often gets the better of me.
I think finalists who try hard and want to but can't find a position are a small number and many might have just been too picky about who they would work for or are just the tail end of the bell curve.
and again, back to waiting (4 days, maybe)
I was at the San Francisco location and the interviewers and staff were really nice and laid back as well. I'm not sure if it is a very popular interview location. There were just two other interviewees who were there at the time I was.
ReplyDeleteHow many people usually end up going to the job fair? Are they more likely to get placed than those who cannot afford it?
I'm so glad to see so many other people found the assessment process incredibly awkward. It was bizarre not having any sort of engagement from the interviewers and to have them ask questions like "And what was the outcome of your experience?" instead of more thoughtful, unscripted interviews. A little part of me wondered if this was more of a psychology test than a cohesive painting of individual capability. It could also mean that the gov does not trust its employees to make subjective judgements of potential applicants.
ReplyDeleteI guess like everyone else, I could go either way, though I did feel as though I was rambling a bit due to the frequency of uncomfortable silence. What's weird is that the interviewers were friendly and joking when I first arrived and when I departed, but turned into robots as soon as the process began.
Does anyone know if scores from the online assessment, or any other factors (besides veterans preference), affect finalist selection?
ReplyDelete@Michael: As far as I know, the online assessment score was already factored. If you're a semifinalist, it means you scored well enough on the online assessment. The finalists will be drawn from the semifinalists who scored highest on the in-person assessment. Or that's how it worked last year.
ReplyDelete@SKneez: I think the PMF program office takes seriously its stated goal of providing quality pre-screening of applicants. To that end, you can expect some rigor in the interviewing, but it will still be up to the individual agencies and/or hiring managers to determine if you are a good fit for that particular agency/department/position.
Also, having been through the training for the in-person assessors, I can tell you they tried to standardize the process as much as possible to help prevent biases from creeping in. That would explain the robot-like behavior.
It seems the program office is being much more guarded in terms of projecting a release date than they have in the past. I would imagine, based on the lack of information coming out, that finalists will not be announced tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteDoes anybody else come to similar conclusions? It would be nice if they could project a date. Not sure about others, but the suspense is a killer!
@SKneez- I had a similar experience, my assessors were friendly when I went in and when I left, but during the interview itself they were very serious and robotic.
ReplyDelete@ Rob- I'm inclined to agree. I'm a little skeptical that we'll find out the results tomorrow. Hopefully they'll post something on the PMF facebook page letting us know when we can expect to hear.
But, even so, I have to admit I'm starting to get a little bit excited each time my inbox shows a new email!
The last question on facebook asks when we'll hear, and it has gone (perhaps deliberately?) unanswered since the 13th of january. Unfortunately i'm not too optimistic about knowing anything by tomorrow, but I sure am hoping for it.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like we might be hearing soon! The official website posted the "Memo to PMF Class of 2012 Finalists" at 8:00 EST this morning: http://www.pmf.gov/media/39654/2012_finalist_memo_01-23-12_final.pdf.
ReplyDeleteThey are also in the process of revising the "Current Finalists" tab on the page, so there is progress. Also, there is the following quote: "As a Finalist, you have up to one year from selection to obtain an appointment as a Presidential Management Fellow (PMF), often referred to as a Fellow. For example, 2012 Finalists were officially selected on January 24, 2012, and have until January 24, 2013, to accept and start a PMF appointment."
It clearly states January 24th as the selection date for 2012 Finalists, so who knows!
@Michelle, thanks for the update! Based on what they're saying in the current finalists tab, we could know something tomorrow!
ReplyDeleteOf course, it's all wishful thinking until they make some sort of announcement.
We're gonna find out tomorrow, I just know it!!! GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteOh gosh! great observations! i am so excited/nervous. I want this so much!
ReplyDelete"Within the next 24 hours all semi-finalists for the PMF Class of 2012 will be sent a notice on whether or not selected as a Finalist and listed on the PMF website. Thank you.
ReplyDelete" was just posted on PMF's facebook page!
Rejections just sent out. Not sure if finalists announced yet or not.
ReplyDelete@Katie-
ReplyDeleteHow do you know rejections were sent out? Are people receiving notices already?
I just received a rejection email. And then received a congratulations you're a finalist email....not sure which it is now.
ReplyDeleteHA! I just got a rejection letter too.... now waiting for my congratulations email. Thanks for the (false?) hope, Katie!
ReplyDeleteI just received a rejection email and then a congratulations email as well.
ReplyDeleteI just received a rejection email... and then received a congratulations you're a finalist email, too.
ReplyDeletei got both as well. omg which one is it :(
ReplyDeleteYep, got the second one too! Hope lives on!!! (But do I really want to work for an organization that can't keep its emails straight?! Just joking...)
ReplyDelete@Michael - have you received both emails as well?
ReplyDeleteAll: Check the new thread. We've seen this in the past (I'll try to dig up the link), but the bottom line is if you receive both, it's best to wait until the actual list is published.
ReplyDeleteI only received the acceptance email. Did you guys check application manger? Do you have the acceptance letter there as well?
ReplyDeleteSo far I've only gotten one- the rejection so far
ReplyDeleteHow long did you all have between the rejection and finalist email? Maybe my second one is still coming (hopefully?)
Rejection notice received... No acceptance letter has followed. Congrats to the finalists.
ReplyDelete@Annie - mine was a 5 minute delay
ReplyDeleteI got the rejection letter at 4:57 pm and the congratulations letter at 5:03. So 6 minute delay. I also checked on applicationmanager.gov and both notices are posted.
ReplyDeleteAh, well, that doesn't bode well for me!
ReplyDeleteCongrats to all the finalists (or people have been both rejected and accepted- hopefully that means you're in!)
For those who received two emails, were they at the same time? I just got an email saying I am a finalist. Been 11 minutes, but no rejection. I don't know whether to celebrate or not!
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DeleteActually now it has been more like 30 minutes...
DeleteI am in the same boat pmfdood. I am assuming (which I really dislike doing) that we are good. I have no clue what to think about the folks that received both emails.
DeleteMy rejection notice came first, followed by the finalist notice. I would assume if you only got the finalist notice you likely are a finalist. As for the rest of us, it appears everyone that has commented so far has received both - I don't know of anyone that received only a rejection notice yet.
DeleteI received an acceptance letter. No rejection (yet).
ReplyDeleteHaven't received anything yet...good luck everyone!
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