Wednesday, November 2, 2011

2012 PMF Semifinalists: Open Thread

[Update 3 November: The actual number this year was around 1200. I guess we can thank the political and fiscal climate for that number. If the percentages from previous years apply (so, uh, beware the following conclusions), then we're looking at a finalist pool of perhaps 600. Whether that improves your chances of getting a job or not is anyone's guess.

Also, I think it's worth noting that the PMF Program Office hasn't provided links to the lists of nominees or semifinalists as they've done in previous years. This makes it impossible for me to analyze the data and ask some potentially tough questions about it. If anyone has seen such lists, I would be interested in seeing them. Otherwise, I find this move to be the antithesis of a transparent process. It's baffling.
]

Notifications for semifinalist selection were supposed to begin rolling out sometime yesterday, and I've seen some comments that indicate they have, at least for some of you. Given the sheer volume of you (over 9000), the process can take a while, so if you haven't heard anything, I would recommend patience. I will provide an update here once the PMF Program Office posts something, but we can already anticipate the number will be around 1500.

I'll also remind you that the PMF Program Office is responding to some inquiries via their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/PMFProgram

Whether you've heard anything (good or bad) or not, let us know.

92 comments:

  1. I just received my rejection notice, so I bid good-bye for now. Of course, I will continue pursuing federal jobs through other channels. Good luck and congrats to all who advanced to the next stage!

    Here's the notice I received:

    "We appreciate your interest in the Presidential Management Fellows (PMF) Program. We have now completed scoring the on-line assessment process and regret to inform you that you are not among those selected as a semi-finalist. Your pursuit of an advanced degree is an honor and indicates your potential for future, professional and personal accomplishments.

    During the 2012 PMF application and nomination process, we received over 9,000 applications. During the on-line assessment process, candidates were rated on several dimensions. Scores from the on-line assessment process were used to determine semi-finalists.

    An official list of semi-finalists for the PMF Class of 2012 will soon be posted to the PMF website at www.pmf.gov.

    You may wish to apply again next year when the PMF Program eligibility will be expanded to two years after the completion of an advanced degree. You can learn more about the changes to the PMF program by reviewing the proposed regulations at www.opm.gov/hiringreform/pathways. Keep in mind that the PMF Program represents only one avenue for obtaining Federal employment. We urge you to consider other alternatives in public service as well. .

    We appreciate your interest in the PMF Program wish you the best in your future endeavors."

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  2. I did not receive a "blank" letter yesterday but early this morning I did receive a letter which stated I was a semi-finalist.

    If we are to assume the total will be around 1500 from past years, is it safe to assume that roughly 500 finalists will be selected as well?

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  3. I received my notice this morning, that I was selected as a Semi Finalist.

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  4. Last year 54% of live interviewees became PMFs (well over 700). I did that a couple months ago, but I think it's correct.

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  5. Just found out this morning that I was not selected. ... Really disappointed and wish I could find out why/what answers were "correct" that led to the semi-finalist selection. O well.. there is always next year.

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  6. @Ian C: I was also not selected. Was there a common pattern or theme to your answers? For example, I know when asked about situations with other employees, I tended to answer that I would take care of it myself before going to a supervisor. I know they say there are no correct or incorrect choices, and I answered honestly, but I'm curious about what kinds of answers indicated "leadership," "teamwork," etc.

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  7. @Nicole, I was talking about that with a friend who applied as well. Neither of us advanced. We both also answered we would talk to our co-worker before going to a supervisor. When we both finished the test we also thought perhaps that was a mistake, it would be looked at as too aggressive.

    I'd be curious to also see what sort of patterns exist there.

    If there is a silver lining, it's that part that says we can apply again next year thanks to the reforms in federal hiring.

    To everyone who made it, huge congrats and best of luck moving forward!!!

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  8. Hi everyone I received my one and only letter posted 1157pm last night. I made it one more round. I really didn't want to have high expectations because the pool was so big, so I am really in shock/amazed - although still have one more hurdle to clear.
    I'll tell you all the reason I am shocked:
    On the writing assessment I was only to pull together like 200-250 words. My 1st and 3rd paragraphs had a few sentences although my second had only one line, as I was planning to go back and add to it at the end. Secondly, I went into this with the attitude that I am going to answer the questions how I know my supervisors would rate me as if they were rate there beside me. That was really hard on some of them to acknowledge that I am not above average or even average on some, especially since I want be competitive with all of the exceptional candidates out there.
    Then what I thought was the nail in the coffin was, I'm not sure if anyone remembers but there was a question that was either identical or very close to another one (mine was something about patience with others-I think). After I clicked the answer that popped in my head and hit submit, I remembered the 1st question and I submitted a downgraded answer about myself. I thought for sure that was one of those questions that check for consistency (like if people can't answer the same question similar each time its a easy cut).
    But with all that said, I am very interested in the rating system, I'm wondering if its more a medium range of scores they set, where it excludes the really low and really high. It was probably created by psychologists and had some personality/behavior type results. I am really curious to know what my answers say about me? Just my theory!
    I would love to hear others experiences with the assessments, goods-bads or disproof of my theory.
    Congratulations everyone whether you make it all the way to the finalist or had been cut long ago, a lot of extra work had to be dedicated just to submit all of the requirements on time while going to school, some working, and some with families... Wiki info less then 9% of Americans have a graduate degrees, so we really all are pretty motivated, hard-working people.

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  9. I did advance and I think I pretty much always answered that I would figure out the problem on my own without involving anyone else. Sounds like that was not what decided things, if your answers were similar. I don't think we will crack their system, unfortunately.

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  10. I was rejected. I actually landed a government job via my internship right after I began my application....I said what the heck, I would love to see if I can make it because the rotational opportunities would be fantastic. I am not sad because I know that the spot was given to someone who is equally deserving, but I am really frustrated with the arbitrary testing process. I feel like I am a government worker and I still couldn’t pass the OPM test!!! Geez. I honestly think that people should try to get into the government via an internships and I would do it with ANY government agency doing ANYTHING. Once you have 3 years as a PFT you will attain status and can move around very easily. Good luck everyone.

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  11. @Evy Congrats on your job offer! I guess I feel sort of dejected because I HAD an internship with my dream agency, but I worked in a very small office that didn't have the budget to take me on after I finished. Being a PMF Finalist would have been a great way to go back to the agency and say "HIRE ME!". I've seen promising internships at different agencies, but they always want students who are currently enrolled (and will be for the next semester or year) and I graduate in December, so I'm basically not eligible. Ah, well. I still have some contacts from my internship and I'll definitely reapply for the PMF program next year!

    @Maxi Oh I know I won't be able to crack the system. I think it's my inner academic coming out when I say I'm curious about the answers/choices they assigned certain value to. I studied a bit of IO psychology as an undergrad and so I'm kind of familiar with the methods companies use to evaluate employees. I guess when you have 9,000 people who all have grad degrees, leadership positions, solid academics, and general good work experience, you have to narrow it down somehow.

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  12. Congrats to the semi-finalists!

    I am, sadly, not one of them. I think my failing must have been on the situational judgement questions. On many questions, I felt that none of the answers really reflected what I would actually do or there was more than one semi-appropriate response. I found myself saying, "it depends" quite often. There was usually one obviously inappropriate answer, however. I'm fairly confused at this point and would really appreciate some feedback!

    Example question:

    You are a member of a project team in your office. During a project meeting a colleague gives you a task that you do not feel qualified or trained to handle. Which of the following actions are you most likely to take?

    1) Complete the task as best you can.
    Yes, I would do this but only if I could get some more information on how to do the task. I wouldn't want to take on the task and then do a poor job because I didn't know what I was doing. I would not have chosen this answer but I have I feeling a probably should have.

    2)Complain to your supervisor.
    I sure wouldn't do this!

    3) Ask someone in the office who knows how to do the task to help you.
    I might do this if someone in the office had the time and willingness to help - not so they would do the job for me, but so that I could learn and produce a quality product. I think I chose several answers similar to this one.

    4)Explain to the colleague that you do not feel qualified to work on the task and you would prefer that the task be given to someone else.
    I wouldn't just pass on an assignment because it was challenging.

    What I most likely would do really isn't on the list. I would explain to the colleague that I didn't feel qualified but would like to become qualified and then ask if they could point me to information so that I could gain the skills necessary to complete the task with the highest quality and in a timely and professional manner.

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  14. Patti,

    I did the same as you. There were many questions where my real answer would have been based on a rubric, sometimes of all the possible answers, sometimes including answers not availed. That rubric would have been based on details.

    I tried the select my best and worst answer based on the rubric (what I was least or most likely to do with the information given). But my answers may have changed based on context of the project, the office workgroup, the response to my first inquiry etc.

    I, by the way, did not get accepted. I will keep trying other avenues. I have disabilities. I am curious if anyone else with disabilities got accepted or rejected, and if so did you ask for more time on the test or otherwise identify as a PWD? I'd like to think at this stage it is not taken into account, but I am curious to see f there is a trend of not either way.

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  15. I got in (although, really, still only have a ~25% chance of becoming a finalist and finding an appointment) and to be succinct I simply answered each question honestly. For almost every question I chose my first inclination, although a few required more thought.

    What we all need to remember is that we're talking about 9000 graduate-level applicants competing for 1500 spots. There's a good chance that well over 1500 applications received "high" scores on the test, but could not all be selected. That's just the nature of the beast, but good companies are always hiring talent, so I hope everyone can keep their heads held high.

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  16. I was selected as a semi-finalist early this morning. I don't think there's a "trick" to passing the test, you just have to think through each question and imagine the scenario both as an employee and a supervisor. I don't know what the "right" answers are to the test, but from my work experience I know there are times when it's appropriate to seek a supervisor's input and there are times when it's not.

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  17. I don't think that anyone who did not advance should assume that overall they chose the wrong answers. It could have come down to one question, you never know. It is a really unfortunate system for selecting people and I don't think anyone really thinks that it is the ideal way to pick semi finalists. I think the people who advanced should feel they got lucky (I know I do) and those who did not should remain confident about themselves and their abilities.

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  18. Hi,

    I was selected as a semi-finalist as well. Good luck to everyone. For those who didn't make it don't worry I am sure you will find another great opportunity in the fed. Stay strong and keep the faith.

    Does anyone's written test score appear on their application? Mine still says results are not available.

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  19. I was selected as a semi-finalist as well. I consider myself completely lucky, considering I know people who applied and were rejected but who are just as qualified.

    The next step: in-person interview? Is it normal for 50% semi-finalists to make it as finalists? What happens after that, trying to find a placement?

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  20. In my opinion, there were no right or wrong answers for the online test, just like taking a Myers-Briggs assessment, the online questions sorted each test taker's answers into roughly defined personality silo's. There is no reason to feel any less intelligent or less capable for not making it to the next stage, it simply means the answers you gave were comparably weaker in the narrowly defined personality traits OPM judges make the best PMF candidates. And who knows what exactly those traits are! Perhaps you don't want to have the personality traits OPM deems necessary to make a good PMF. Essentially, don't feel bad or spend time thinking how you "should" have answered.

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  21. I was selected as a semi-finalist too. From what I understand, the written test entry is just a dummy entry. The writing aspect of the online assessment is part of the external assessment entry. Have any of the other semi-finalists been sent an e-mail about interview dates yet?

    For those of you who weren't selected, I really do wish you luck! I know that this has been an interesting journey for all of us.

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  22. I was selected as a semifinalist also. @Nicole 8:52 and Patrick 9:02, I answered those questions the same way- Its my honest answer and it never looks good to go cry to your boss over minor things you can handle yourself. I know a lot of good candidates from my school who also were not selected-its pretty arbitrary. Good luck in the future.

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  23. These types of tests cannot be gamed. They can generally show if there are attempts to do this. The FBI as a much more rigorous exam process that makes the online assessment here look like a cake walk, and the FBI personnel were quite clear that there is no way to really figure it out, so that you really should just be yourself and not worry about what is right or wrong, but only what you would do. I am glad I had the FBI entrance exam as it really prepared me very well for the kinds of questions we had, and that allowed me to make my decisions much quicker and easier.

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  24. I have to agree. I've seen versions of this SJA a few times now, and I can usually come away with what I think is the best answer for me, and I can sometimes determine which is objectively the worst answer, but it's all the middle bits that are fuzzy. Not impossible to game if your goal is to get an average score, but probably much harder if you want a top score.

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  25. Only "1200+" semi-finalists per facebook. Does that mean more of us make it to the next round, or that there are fewer positions waiting for us?

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  26. I wondered the exact same thing.

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  27. I was selected as a finalist. To future applicants, all I can say is that I really conditioned myself not to think about what the right answer was. I honestly answered like I would react (or closest to it). i also didn't worry about consistency (not sure if i was or wasn't, i just answered). My most important tip is to know your place in the organization. That is at least what my work experience has taught me.

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  28. @PMFellow - I don't think they will publish the semi-finalist list until everything is cleared up with the people who received the notification of an incomplete assessment when they actually had completed it. The PMF FB page has this from the moderator:

    Presidential Management Fellows Program: We are reviewing the inquiries at this time and preparing individual responses. If the applicant failed to enter 150 words on the writing sample, this would result in an incomplete assessment even though they completed the remainder of the assessment.

    Based on this, I would think they are still working out the kinks. While it would mean more competition for me, I would hope that anyone that qualified as a Semi-Finalist would have the opportunity to move on to the next step. I would hope they would not disqualify candidates due to a technical flaw on their end.

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  29. I was not selected as a semi-finalist and not surprised. I assumed my chances were about 1500/9000, or slightly better based on a few stragglers mailing it in or just not doing it. I felt I could have answered the same questions many different ways depending on which side of the bed I woke up on that morning - and each way would have been my honest response that particular day. Especially on the self-assessment. The situational questions seemed a little better, but I don't think they were formed well enough to cut the 87% that they did. I knew the process was somewhat capricious when I started, so I am not disappointed. I rolled the dice and lost. I am very interested in seeing the list of semi-finalists, however.

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  30. Hi everyone, I will be attending the in-person interview and have a question about what I should wear to the interview. I am a male (with very poor fashion sense), so I could use your help. Initially I was planning to wear suit and tie, however in the assessment guide, it was suggested to "wear comfortable clothes." Since a suit and tie is not what I would define as "comfortable," I'm not sure what to wear. Any suggestions?

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  31. @Matt - I think I would still suggest a suit and tie. You do get used to them after a while. At a minimum, you'd probably be fine in a khakis and a blazer or sport coat with a white button down shirt (tie optional). (I'm assuming general cluelessness when you say poor fashion sense, so feel free to correct me.)

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  32. I received my assessment date and it's just around the corner (November 16). Will the format of the assessment, to your knowledge, remain the same as last year's round? I spoke to some friends who are current PMFs and they said it's basically a policy analysis and a briefing, followed by a similar group briefing project. Thoughts? What would you recommend we prepare? Can the topics be on current affairs issues or will they largely be theoretical?

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  33. @ Matt- I was told by current PMF's to wear a suit, so that's what I'm planning. I figure it's better to be over dressed than under dressed.

    @Skneez, the email I received with my interview info (Nov 15!) said to expect the interview to last only an hour. So... I'm guessing the format has changed significantly from previous years.

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  34. "A list of Semi-Finalists will be posted when all inquiries are resolved."

    There you go pmfellow!

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  35. Are any semi-finalists receiving preparation support for the in person assessment from their schools? I am not at a US university and I am curious what help you are being given. I did my undergrad at American University and I know they try to help their students as much as they can. I already asked if I could have any information they give out, but they said no. Good job supporting your alumni AU... Alumni are entitled to certain help from the Career Center for 5 years after graduating, so I was not pleased with that response.

    It would be wonderful if anyone who does receive advice from their school to post it here for us all to see and discuss.

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  36. @Maxi- Its a behavioral interview, so I would just do research on what that is. Be prepared to answer questions about your life/work experiences, for example, "talk about a time you had to overcome adversity". They will be listening to answers and also how you conduct yourself (Confident? Truthful? etc.) I had one with a government agency before.

    FYI, I got word I'm interviewing in DC on the 5th of Dec.

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  37. Hi...does anyone know how long the assessment takes? The notice said one hour but I've heard that some people have waited 8-9 hours in the past. I'm trying to book my flights so it would be great to have this all figured out.

    Also, does anyone know the number of PMF jobs usually available outside of DC? If so, what other cities usually have PMF Jobs?

    Thanks!

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  38. It's interesting that people know of their interviews so far in advance. I'm a little disappointed that my interview is so soon (15th), trying to book a plane ticket this close to that date is super expensive. It'll definitely be worth it for the chance to interview though!

    @Maxi, I don't think my school offers any sort of preparation for it. I wish they did though!

    @Wendy, my understanding is that the interview process has changed significantly from previous years. They used to do essentially an all day interview with several different types of assessment which is why it took so long. So... theoretically we should be in and out relatively quickly this year!

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  39. I received the e-mail today, that my in-person assessment is on the 14 December in DC. At least I won't have to wait as long for the results. I wonder if the appointments are given alphabetically, my last name is at the end of the alphabet.

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  40. I am also in DC on the 14th with a name at the end of the alphabet. That is an interesting theory @Jean. I lucked out though, it would have been very hard for me to get to an interview before mid-December given that I work and go to school outside the US. I wish the PMF would do phone/ video interviews, but I understand why they don't. If I become fellow then it will be more than worth it, otherwise it's a lot of money to spend. I do feel really lucky to be a semi-finalist though so I should not complain.

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  42. That's interesting you are on the 18th (assuming that's December). The dates given for the assessment were November 14th through December 16th, but they must have extended it. Anyone have a date later than the 18th? Anyone tried to reschedule yet? How much choice were you given?

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  43. I think some people from last year indicated it might be organized by geographic area based on the people that were grouped with in their assessments.

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  44. I received my NOR rejection because I did not complete the online assessment. I really did complete the assessment and there must be a glitch somewhere. Also not able to connect with a live person to discuss. Any help??

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  45. @ Annie, I have to book a flight from London for my assessment on November 16. So I sympathize.

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  46. @PMFellow

    Do you have any notion as to how many finalists who attended the career fair ended up with an appointment?

    I've seen that 50-60% of all finalists from last year have found an appointment (not sure of the accuracy of that number), but I'm more interested to hear how those who go the extra step and attend the career event fare.

    I'm not looking for a specific number, which I'm sure you don't have, but just a general idea of your thoughts on that. Thanks so much!

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  48. I received my interview letter yesterday, 5 Dec, Atlanta, and yes the format must have changed significantly from last year since the interview is only 1 hour. There is no writing session or group poject compared to last year. Just a basic interview and go.

    Adam, to answer your question I believe 50% will be selected... last year the 870 were selected.

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  49. Any suggestions on how to prepare for the in-person assessment? I understand it is a behavioral interview, which relies on critical incidents from past experiences. As a result, it might seem that there is really no way to prepare. However, to the extent that at least some preparation is possible, are there any suggestions? Thanks!

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  50. I want to confirm what Jacob Thompson said is true. My reading of the rules seems to suggest the semi-finalist assessment will be a single panel interview. There is NOTHING that says bring a dictionary, a pencil, or do not mention information that gives away your school identity. These were all told to semi-finalists last year. Can we confirm there will not be a group interview or writing section?

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  51. I'm assuming the same thing you all are- there will be a panel interview with no group interview or writing section.

    On the PMF Facebook page, someone asked about the length of the interview and the person posting as PMF said "You will be given approximately 15 minutes to prepare prior to the interview." Any thoughts on what we'll be preparing for?

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  52. was there ever a list of semi-finalist that was/is going to be published?

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  53. I still haven't seen such a list. I also have very little advice for these new in-person assessments, since they've apparently changed the format from last year.

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  54. A notification I got this morning says we will need two #2 pencils. why we have to bring our own pencils, as I don't think the government is that bad off yet, and what we will need them for is beyond me.

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  55. Can you post the full text of the notification? I have not received anything, although my assessment is not until December 14.

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  56. I haven't received any notification like that yet, and my interview is this coming Thursday.

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  57. I have also not received any notification to bring pencils. However, the in-person assessment is to be a structured interview. I'm not sure how much help this is, but OPM has a Practical Guide to Structured Interviews. It's a user guide for those creating the interview, but gives good insight to why they ask certain kinds of questions, as well as sample questions for the different areas of assessment. I'm attaching the link, however, you can also google "OPM guide to structured interviews".

    http://apps.opm.gov/ADT/ContentFiles/SIGuide09.08.08.pdf

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  58. I have also received a reminder notification to bring two #2 pencils. My in-person assessment is next week in Atlanta.

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  59. I had the same email saying to bring pencils, it came in a confirmation email I received reminding me of my interview. No idea why we'll need them though!

    Guess I'll find out on Tuesday :)

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  60. Well...how did the interview go for those who had it today?

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  61. Just a reminder for those who've had the interview: providing details to applicants who haven't gone yet is not only a "disqualifier" but is probably not wise ;-)

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  62. To clarify...was not looking for details of the interview but more or less how they felt it went. Which was worse the anticipation or the actual interview?

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  63. I interview tomorrow, at the moment, anticipation and nerves are VERY high :) Worst case scenario, at least by this time tomorrow I'll be done, and that's always a good feeling!

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  64. Anne,

    Please post how you think the interview went, not looking for details but just an overview of what you felt.

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  65. I survived!

    Overall I think it went fairly well. There were definitely some questions I felt like I did very well on and some... maybe not so much. The interviewers were very nice and friendly, not intimidating at all. Overall it was a much less stressful experience than I imagined.

    There were a few other people in the waiting room that were going to interview as well, attire ranged from a suit (which I wore) to just khaki's and a button down shirt, so there was some range there.

    Not really sure what else I can share without breaking the rules, but if there's anything else I can help with I'd be glad to!

    And now I'm off to take a nap :)

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  66. @Annie or anyone else who has interviewed -

    I hope this doesn't seem like too silly a question, but I am flying into DC Thursday and staying with a friend before my interview on Friday. I would like to leave from the interview straight to the airport. Did people have bags with them? Was there somewhere to put them?

    Good luck to everyone!

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  67. @b062962e-1012-11e1-950b-000bcdcb8a73
    You can bring bags if you would like. You can keep them with you or in the check in area. A tip for a true professional though, since you are interviewing at a hotel, you could always check them with the hotel for a few dollar tip.

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  68. Annie,

    Thanks for that info. Did you need a #2 pencil? and if so for what reason?

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  69. Annie,

    Can you tell us why we need to bring a pencil? I'm not asking for an essay prompt or anything, but are we writing something? Or is JUST the structured interview?

    And how long were you at the testing site? 2-3 hours?

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  70. I'm sure the intent is good, but I think Annie's being asked to divulge too much information. I wouldn't want to see anyone disqualified; looking forward to a fair competition!

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  71. I agree. Providing and/or asking for any further details besides feelings of nerves before the interview would be solid grounds for disqualification. I recommend following directions on your ticket and finding out the reason behind the requests on the day of your interview.

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  72. I'm not sure I should say anything about the pencils. Sorry- I wish I could be more helpful there, but I don't want to give away too much and get disqualified!

    I wasn't at the testing center too long, they were running on time and the schedule went just how they outlined in the email.

    I didn't see anyone with their suitcase, I carried a messenger bag, the other candidates there weren't carrying anything. It might vary by location, but my interview was in a Federal building- not a hotel. There was a reception area there though, so they might be willing to hold onto your luggage for you, but I'm not sure.

    Good luck to everyone who has interviews coming up! I'm looking forward to everyone being done so we can have a more detailed discussion of the process!

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  74. current pmf here. best advice: get a good night's rest and use your individual expertise when going through the interview process. Answering using the knowledge you've been taught, rather than worrying about what you think they want to hear, will keep you relaxed and in turn provide for a better answer. Good luck!

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  75. sorry about my question! I didn't mean any harm/to inquire beyond what I am allowed to know. Please delete or edit my question if need be! my apologies.

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  76. @pmfquestion- no worries! I'm just not really sure where the line is between what is okay to share and what isn't. I definitely want to err on the side of not divulging information I'm not supposed to.

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  77. @pmfellow - the semi-finalist list is up now at pmf.gov

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  78. Thanks, got it. When I get the time, I will do some cleanup and analysis just like last year. It's too bad they never published the list of nominees for this year, though.

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  79. I also advanced, interview is in early December. I definitely did not see anything about #2 pencils, though I guess I will stick a few in my bag just in case--they're a pretty easy thing to have along!

    I am surprised that so many people get culled on the basis of the online assessment. It doesn't seem like the questions are thorough enough to really give someone the boot unless they come out as an across-the-board sociopath or something.

    I was a bit wary about saying "would deal with it myself" for the "you see something weird" type questions. From talking to friends who work in the government, there are definitely some weird and seemingly archaic or counterintuitive policies in place, so I suspect they want people who are not TOO independent--if you happen to deal with things in the wrong way it could cause embarrassment for the organization down the road. I also took the questions to be "if you observed this while you were a PMF" and figured I'd be seeing these things as someone relatively new to the scene and low down on the pecking order (i.e., I might not actually have that much authority to resolve/deal with things on my own, and I would not have been there long enough to consistently know which transgressions "matter" and which can be ignored), so I did say on a fair number of the questions that I would probably talk to a supervisor before doing anything.

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  80. @Cat

    When doing hiring of such a small group from such a large group, you have to have a quick and uniform cut off system. Does anyone really think that tests like the GRE have anything to do with most programs, but studies have shown that those who do well on them tend to be the people who will succeed in grad school. Sure some good people get cut, but you gotta do that some times in order to have efficiency and hiring is all about equity and not equality

    and I like that everyone seems to be keeping details to themselves, but I will add one no brainer.

    leave your phones behind and do not bring them to your interview. Just glad it is over and now I wait.

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  81. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  82. Hey @PMF,

    Looks like last year (and I may be completely wrong) all of the veterans who made it to semi-finalist list also made the finalist list. A. Is that true? B. Has it been true for previous years? C. Can you decipher whether it is the vet's preference points (5 or 10) or the experience that has prepared them for the assessments?

    Thanks!

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  83. Me@6:56 AM: I don't know that we can say for certain how many veterans ultimately make it through. Of those who do, we also can't really say how many do so solely as a result of the preference. If we assume a normal distribution of assessment scores, then we have to assume that the veterans themselves are also evenly distributed prior to the application of the preference. Those that ultimately fall to the right of the cutoff line do so either because their unmodified score was already to the right of it, or because their modified score was just enough to put them across. If we see that a high percentage of veterans in the semifinalist list also appear in the finalist list, then we can assume that those two factors were at work. We can only guess at the preparation level they had coming into the assessment.

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  84. Well, I had my turn with the in-person interview process. This was my first time in Washington D.C. and it was an awesome experience. I tried to go tour some of the sites, I should have asked if any of the current PMF's were available to take me on a tour of some of the agencies. Hopefully, I make it through to the finalist round so I can return for the Job Fair.

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  85. @me 6:56- how did you find your data showing that all veterans on Semi-Finalist list made it to the Finalist list? Where are you finding Semi-Finalist lists with Veterans Preference marked? PMFellow, do you know how many points you are scored out of, i.e. is 100 points the max score?

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  86. Ok, Guys I am not sure about how many vets made it from the Semi's to the Finals for 2010 (i did not locate a semi-finals list for 2010), but here is how the numbers break down from the Finals list for 2010.

    Total: Picked: 868
    Tot'l Appt's: 448 of those 83 were Vets
    Tot'l Non-Appt's 349 of those 59 were vets
    Tot'l wav'd/Resigned: 71 of those 10 were Vets..

    So what do you see?? Looking at these numbers there is no favoritism towards vets at all, like any OPM job Vets get a preference but the numbers here show only 5.3% of vets got an Appt, 6% did not. The numbers dont lie. Good luck to everyone and just do your best thats all you can ask.

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  87. If you want to validate my math.. Here you go

    https://www.pmf.opm.gov/FinalistSortByStatus.asp

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  88. @Jay- thanks for your stats, but, as you said, all that pertains to appointments and not semis to finals. In 2011 it looks like almost 19% of finalists had VP, I'm interested in the next step from here, i.e. how many semis had VP before the finals. It's nice to know that when a vet does their best they get extra points ;)

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  89. Had my interview yesterday, it went O.K. but probably will not be on the finalist list. I have turned it over to God and what will be will be. I hope the other 4 there with me, did well and their names are on the list.

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  90. @Jean I kind of feel the same way, but you never know......... We don't know for sure if there are criteria for selection beyond the interview itself. Maybe your major is something they're looking for.

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  91. pmfellow,
    Since your update was from 3 November you've probably already found this. But if not, OPM does have a list of semifinalists up now. http://pmf.gov/media/39574/class%20of%202012%20semi-finalist%20list%2011-16-11.pdf
    I don't know about listing nominees.

    I am always interested in your data crunching so please keep it up.

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