Monday, January 23, 2012

2012 PMF Finalist Results Day

[Update 1: There seems to be a notification issue again this year. I'm hearing reports of rejection letters followed by congratulation letters. If you received both of these, be sure to let us know. Original text is also appreciated. I would like to note that in cases where this happens, you might just have to wait until the list is received to be sure.]

[Update 2: I'm sure many of you know by now, having seen the Facebook page, that the earlier incidents with emails were the result of some kind of system problem. The real results should go out sometime later, I guess.]

[Update 3: The 2012 finalist list has now been released (PDF), and the notifications are still trickling out. If you haven't heard anything yet, check the official list for your name. This year there were 628 finalists, which is considerably lower than previous years. A permanently archived version of the list is here.]

According to the official information channels, the 2012 PMF finalist results are supposed to be out "on or around" January 24th. Unofficial word on the street is that they're going out now. In the past, these notifications have taken a while to process, so if you haven't heard anything yet, be patient.

But if you have heard anything...

Let us know if you made it or not.

If so, congratulations. Now it's time to find a position :) Let us know if you have any particular agencies or job fields in mind. Also, are you going to attend the job fair?

If not, just remember that the process was competitive, and lots of otherwise good, well-qualified semifinalists are also being sent away. Finally, given the recent structural changes to the program, I think applying again next year is in your best interest, so go for it! Be sure and let us know whether you plan to try again next year.

Once the finalist list is published, I will make a new post linking to it.

262 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. I only got an acceptance email as well, and only show an acceptance one in my app. manager. I hope it's real!

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    1. Did you check your email again? I got rejected, but then got a congratulations email 6 minutes later.

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    2. I did not get another e-mail, so what the fuck does this mean?

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  3. I just received a rejection email (15 mins ago)... and then received a congratulations you're a finalist email (8 minutes ago), too.

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  4. Um rejected, then a congratualations email 7 minutes later? Wow, which one is it?

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  5. I only received the acceptance email and have the acceptance letter in application manager. Does anyone who received both emails have an acceptance letter in app manager?

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    1. I have both the no and yes letters in my app manager

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    2. interesting. Well, hopefully since I only got the acceptance, that means I'm good. Best wishes to all of you that received both!

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    3. What does your last name start with @Anon1981?

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  6. got a no, and six minutes later got a yes

    first email of no

    We appreciate your interest in the Presidential Management Fellows (PMF) Program. We have now completed the assessment process and regret to inform you that you are not among those selected as a Finalist for the PMF Class of 2012. Your nomination by your school for the PMF Program is an honor and indicates others recognize your academic, professional, and personal accomplishments.

    Keep in mind that the PMF Program represents only one avenue for obtaining Federal employment. We encourage you to consider other alternatives in public service as well.

    We appreciate your interest in the PMF Program and wish you the best in your future endeavors

    second email of yes

    Congratulations! As of January 24, 2012, you have been selected as a Finalist for the Presidential Management Fellows (PMF)Program1920s Class of 2012 and are now eligible for appointment as a Fellow. While obtaining an appointment with a Federal Agency is not guaranteed, reaching Finalist status is quite an achievement. To become a Fellow, Finalists must be appointed by a participating agency and be brought on board by January 24, 2013 (next year).

    The PMF website may be down a day or two due to system maintenance and populating the site with the list of Finalists and their on-line resumes for Federal Agencies to access. We apologize for any inconvenience.

    We are in the process of securing a facility within the Washington, DC, metropolitan area for the PMF Class of 2012 Finalist Job Fair.

    As soon as more information becomes available we will post to the 1C20Become A PMFFind a Job1D20 section on the PMF website, to the

    1C20News & Events1D20 section on the PMF website, and notify all Finalists via email. Attending the Job Fair is optional and at the Finalists1920 expense. Though optional, it is a highly valuable final step to securing a position and becoming a PMF.

    Finalists should now go to the 1C20Become A PMFCurrent Finalists1D20 section on the PMF website to review the 1C20Memo to PMF Class of 2012 Finalists1D20 to read about next steps in the appointment process. In addition, Finalists should review the 1C20Become A PMFFind a

    Job1D20 section on the PMF website on how to update their contact information and on-line resume.

    Best wishes and much success in your search for an appointment as a Fellow.

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  7. I didn't get a second e-mail. I wish they'd get there shit together.

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  8. The final list is up-
    http://www.pmf.gov/become-a-pmf/current-finalists.aspx

    I'm not on the list, but congrats to everyone who made it! I hope you all have good luck finding a position though this program!!

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    1. that's still last year's finalists, correct?

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    2. Annie, that list is from 2011?

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    3. That's from last year! Almost gave me a heart attack

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    4. Yes, that list is from 2011. I knew some people on it.

      I still haven't heard anything.

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  9. @Annie -- I only see the class of 2011 list. Am I missing something?

    I got both letters too (also 6 minutes apart and also have both in App Manager). I'd tend to agree with Anon1981 that if some of us are getting both and some are getting only the acceptance, it doesn't bode well for those of us who get both. But who knows. Anyone get a rejection letter and not get another within the next 10 minutes?

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    1. Michael, I only got a rejection.

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    2. OK, so we have one person who got just the acceptance and one person who got just the rejection and a whole bunch of us who got both. Yikes. I'm going to try to think about something else for a while!

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  11. Yeah it is, sorry! Someone just sent it to me as the class of 2012 list and the website makes it sound like that's the official list. Hopefully they'll get the real list up soon!

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  12. I received an acceptance, no rejection (though I am fearful). My last name starts with H, if that helps. Hopefully they put the list up soon, and that all those with both are getting in :)

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    1. I only received an acceptance letter about 40 minutes ago. No rejection or follow up. Hoping this is good news.

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  13. I'm rejected, just looked at USA Jobs: Eligible - Application Not Referred to Selecting Official

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    1. Yep mine says that too. Probably screwed

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    2. hmmm, what do the folks who received both have listed there? Mine says that my application WAS referred...

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    5. I got both emails and my application status at USAJobs says 'not referred,' so I'm going to say I'm probably out. Congratulations finalists and good luck to all!

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    6. I have both listed but it says not referred. The problem is, I don't think USAJOBS will update after it gets the rejection notice because it thinks its done. Do those of you who were rejected then accepted still have the checklist in application manager? How about those who were just rejected or just accepted?

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    7. @anonymous, I received both emails and my status says "...not referred...". Yes I still have a checklist but everything on it is checked on the application manager.

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    8. Mine says Incomplete....I don't know why...

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    9. @Skneez, receive one email or two?

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    10. Neither! Still Waiting...and I'm in London.

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  14. I have not received an e-mail yet but my status on USAJobs says "Eligible - Application Referred to Selecting Official" - Common sense would tell me that I have moved on but I can only hope.. Good luck to everyone!

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  15. Wow, so far we have had people who have been rejected without a follow up email, people who have been rejected with another email congratulating them, and people who haven't received an email at all. Great.

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  16. Has anyone attempted to call the main office number?

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  17. when I called, they were already closed for the day

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  18. An official list would be really helpful right about now...

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  19. It is strange that the majority of people on here and the facebook page got both letters. Could just be who is posting, but if not, then we probably cannot read into what the two letters mean for someone's status.

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  20. I also have not received notification, either way. Getting settled in for the ling haul with a bottle of The Prisoner and the West Wing.

    Best of Luck to everyone! Hopefully some clarification will come soon.

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  21. My thought is that the people who received an acceptance only email probably are not on the blog or Facebook because to them, one acceptance email makes sense. The majority of us that received two emails are on these sites to figure out what's going on...sadly I believe it won't be good for those of us with two emails.

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  22. i know people who flat out got it, were flat out rejected... and I am one of those in the middle. I got both. However, I personally know some of all three of those categories. I called the pmf office and they advised me to wait for the list. this was around 5:10 pm. They mentioned that nothing official was supposed to go out until midnight, but i am guessing those who only got one email received the correct one. i am a little sick.

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  23. @Bob, thanks for the update. There weren't many people from my school so I only knew a couple others that got this far. Interesting there are flat out yes, flat out no, and all the rest of us. I'm going to look for the old blog the pmfellow mentioned about this happening in the past and see what the results were back then.

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    1. @Katie, if I remember right, some people received acceptance letter and then follow up letters telling them to disregard the previous email. It's a little different this year as most of us were rejected then accepted.

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  24. is there anyone with both emails who has "referred to hiring official" as their status. mind says not referred :( i just want an answer

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    1. If I had to bet, all of the one's who received both emails say not referred. I doubt USAJOBS would update again after getting the rejection notice. I'd also say that the PMF office caught the emails going out and stopped them, therefore not everyone got an email. I guess we'll know for sure when the list is out tommorow.

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  25. I received only the one acceptance email, same message is on my application manager. Good luck to everyone!

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  26. I received one email of acceptance. The website says "referred".

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  27. Not thinking we will see a list today unfortunately.

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  28. Per Facebook
    "We just realized there is a technical problem in sending out notices to all semi-finalists for the PMF Class of 2012. We are researching this and will post an update soon. Please send any inquiries to pmfapplication@opm.gov so we can research and respond accordingly. We apologize for any confusion and inconvenience."

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    1. the "all semi-finalists" is making me wonder if we should not read into whatever news we did receive, but maybe I am just being hopeful because I got a rejection.

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  29. to those who got only an acceptance, are you last names in the beginning, middle, or end of the alphabet?

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  30. No idea what that means. Anyone think they all could have been incorrect, as in just sent randomly?

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  31. Did anyone else not get an email at all?

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    1. you might be one of the lucky ones, hopefully whenever you do receive an email, it will be correct.

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    2. I didn't get anything. My surname begins with S.

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  32. One posted finalist list would clear a lot of this up fast.

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    1. No idea why that is not the default. The list is public later anyway....

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  33. Solely based on replies here and on FB...seems like the break-down is something like 20% yes, 20% no, 60% both (did not add up replies to get that!). Unless a ton of people who received just a "yes" aren't posting, I think there HAVE to be more.

    Who knows, but I definitely feel sick to my stomach!!!

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    1. This is an awful way to find out either way, but I suppose not entirely unexpected given past years and the blank emails sent to during the last round.

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    2. That seems a little optimistic. Quite a few yes onlys, only one no only, and lots of boths. I don't think anything is done alphabetically. My best guess: those who got both are not finalists; the one person (Elroy) who got only the rejection letter got it just before they caught the glitch and stopped sending; those who got an acceptance only are in. Who knows though.

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    3. Also, there's surely a bias as to who's more likely to post here and on facebook between those who got the various letters...

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    4. I also received a no only and I assume there must be more as well. Other people have said they know people who just received a rejection.

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    5. I don't know Michael - all indications pointed to around 50% of semi-finalists becoming finalists, and nowhere near that number of people received a yes (and posted about it).

      Regardless, it's probably best to assume the "both's" didn't get in...I'd rather have the surprise be on the upside!

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    6. Thanks for sharing, sw; that's good news for many of us. It would be great if I could just let this go for the night...

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    7. Yes, we would all be better off if we could just wait patiently and think about other things... We might not have to wait too long though, on facebook they are saying they will post the list soon.

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    8. Check USAjobs and click on application status. It seems some say "Eligible - Application Referred to Selecting Official" and others say "Eligible - Application Not Referred to Selecting Official". I'm not aware of anyone who received two emails showing the supposedly positive "Eligible - Application Referred to Selecting Official"

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  34. My last name starts with B. Acceptance, one email only.

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  35. Also per Facebook
    "All notification emails have been stopped; however, some may still be working through email servers. We are researching the technical problem now and will update soon. Only the "2011" Finalists presently appear on the website. We will update the website to reflect the official list of "2012" Finalists soon. Again, we apologize for the confusion and trying to resolve as soon as possible. Please send any inquiries to pmfapplication@opm.gov. Thank you."

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  36. I have not received an email, and my last name begins with an A...

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  37. Haven't received any email notification and most recent FB message has me thinking I probably won't, at least not tonight. USAJobs shows my status as Eligible - Referred but after seeing how much confusion there seems to be with notification, I'm not going to read too much into that.

    So sorry for those who have received conflicting notifications... I wonder if those in the PMF office have any idea how heart-wrenching it is for applicants to deal with such uncertainty. For a program focused on management, it seems kind of strange that they seem to have information management / communications problems every year.

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    1. I really hope they change whatever system they are using to send the emails, it obviously is flawed.

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  38. I received only the finalist email. If I am so lucky to be one, I have a question: I originally uploaded a pretty old resume. I want to update a new one that is both updated and tailored to the "federal resume" format. Am I given this option?

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    1. See if you can get it here. https://www.pmf.opm.gov/Login.aspx?Login=FF1
      Use the "forgot password link." That's what they did last year.

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    2. Oh I know my password. I am just wondering if I can change my resume before it's sent out to employers.

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    3. That's different than USAJOBS. Did you get it in the congrats email?

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    4. @pmfdood, you will be given the option to upload an updated resume. Go to the "become a pmf" tab at pmf.gov and click on current finalists to the left of the page. There are instructions there to update your resume.

      Good Luck!

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    5. Has anyone confirmed yet if the system works for them? I haven't tried.

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  39. It's not alphabetical if @laferson hasn't received an email and his last name starts with "A". There are several on Facebook saying they received an acceptance email with last names in other parts of the alphabet. I do agree though, it's looking more and more less optimistic for those of us who received both emails.

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    1. It could be reverse alphabetical, or even start in the middle ...

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    2. Although there's a M who hasn't received anything and a M that has on Facebook.......

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    3. Oh, heavens. I've been monitoring the PMF site with a bot every day, eagerly waiting for changes (last year's list apparently went live online before e-mails were sent), refreshing every morning. My partner checked and saw the "news" item about technical difficulties, which led to me scouring the web for information.

      I'm one of those who didn't receive any e-mail at all (surname begins with S), and I wonder if that's better or worse than having received both. I guess instead of the highs and lows, followed by interminable anticipation, i just get the interminable anticipation :)

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  40. Check USAjobs and click on application status. It seems some say "Eligible - Application Referred to Selecting Official" and others say "Eligible - Application Not Referred to Selecting Official". I'm not aware of anyone who received two emails showing the supposedly positive "Eligible - Application Referred to Selecting Official". If I'm wrong, please correct me...

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  41. I suppose this blog would be empty if stuff like this weren't an almost yearly occurrence. Hang in there, all.

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    1. Hey, thanks for having this blog for us. I think I'd be going (even more) crazy if I didn't know other people were experiencing the same thing as me. Much appreciated.

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  42. That is true. All who got both seem to have "not referred." it was guessed before that it's possible USAjobs.gov does not update a selection? I am hopeful, but if i get rejected twice, I will be pretty torn up.

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  43. As the saying goes, the only real option seems to be to 'hang loose.' My last name starts with an M and I got both notifications within the 7-8 minute window others have noted. Unfortunately, the lack of clarity from PMF, coupled with the official list still being unpublished, means everything at this point is purely speculative.

    I don't really think the information currently out there favors a positive or negative end result. The only real conclusion I think can be drawn is that those who received both e-mails have more of an interest in posting about it.

    I am reluctant to conclude that the comments posted either here or on Facebook reflect an accurate sample of the overall outcome. Only time, and most likely, the official list, will really tell us anything about what's going on.

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  44. It still wouldn't hurt to verify what is on USAjobs as PMF officials, via Facebook, specifically told applicants to check their status on USAjobs ...

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    1. USAJobs or Application Manager?

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    2. Actually they said......... https://www.applicationmanager.gov/

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    3. Right, and our application manager says both. tip for future? post a list first.

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    4. Yeah my experience has been the same as others. I received both e-mails, and both are still listed under notifications in the application manager. I also have the 'not referred' status in USAJobs. For some reason, however, (though I can't be totally certain) I think that may have been my status for a good while, even long before the emails went out.

      In any case, one thing I think we can all agree on is hopefully the 2013 PMF program will not be plagued by technical problems like these.

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  45. Did anyone get a rejection email only but have "Eligible, application referred" in their application manager?

    Likewise, did all acceptance only emails all have "Eligible, application referred" in the application manager?

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    1. "Did anyone get a rejection email only but have "Eligible, application referred" in their application manager?"

      Lol, please don't say that is happening too!
      What are your results so far sjc?

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    2. Though USAJobs shows my status as "Eligible, application referred", I don't have any new updates on applicationmanager.gov and haven't received any email notifications. Hope that helps as you puzzle things out.

      I tend to agree with those who've said it may just be best to wait until the list is posted.

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  46. The comment on the latest Facebook post on PMF's wall...

    Awkward. (among other things)

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    1. That's an understatement...

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    2. To paraphrase the author, some of the Facebook wall posts and comments aren't instilling much faith in the ability of the online exam to select for maturity and professional judgement.

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    3. The name doesn't match to a semi-finalist if you take a look at the list. Perhaps some hackers decided to mess with PMF today? I know the PMF office definitely didn't want a repeat of previous notification issues.

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    4. The next reply...

      Haha, at least there are some goofballs to entertain us while we anxiously wait for the true results.

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    5. That FB post, while a little inappropriate, is right- OPM should have this down to a science. They screwed up the semi-finalist notices too. Good for her for speaking truth to power, even if it was a little rude.

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    6. Girl's post is now gone replaced by a male's negative post who also does not match to a semi-finalist. Its just pure speculation of course, but maybe it wasn't just people's Facebook accounts that were possibly hacked.

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  47. I also got two emails, my status in USAJOBS says "not referred". I'm going to just assume a rejection, and if I get a "real" acceptance email tomorrow, well, that will be a nice surprise. For now, I'm just going to get on with some other job applications!

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  48. I haven't received any email or notification. App manager still doesn't show anything, and USA Jobs status says: Application Status Not Available.

    Looks like its going to be a long night.

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    1. I'm right there with you..

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    2. Me too. I've been trying to be patient, but still no emails or status updates. I'm glad you said something I was thinking I was dropped from the system all together.

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    3. Now the morning of the 24th, no update, no email, no change in status on USAJobs.gov or the Application Manager.

      Today will be a long day.

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  49. Either way, i will have received a rejection, acceptance, and either a rejection or acceptance all from the same program within the same 24 hours. Just sayin..

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  50. I Just received my ACCEPTANCE letter ..!!!

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  51. Congratulations Jay. I hope everyone who has been waiting gets good news today, even though I suppose statistically that's unlikely. I think it's extremely poor form to continue this "you got it, you didn't get it" farce when notifying folks.

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  52. Jay, is that your first notification at all or did you receive both letters?

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  53. Jay and others with acceptances only- does your USA jobs application status say "Eligible, application referred to selecting official?"

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  54. The USA Jobs application status is slow as malasses. I'm not sure I would read too much into what that says. I've not received any notification and mine says "Eligible, application referred to selecting official".

    Honestly, and I know this is not nearly as much fun, I would wait until you receive difinitive notice. If you received two notifications, you may just have to wait until they publish "the list" or give you clearer direction, individually.

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    1. Thanks, Amy. It's great to get an update.

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  56. I just called the office and got a rep. on the phone. She wouldn't tell me my status, but it sounds like if you've received multiple notices, they may be willing to clear that up for you.

    She said there is still a technical issue, and they have stopped all notifications until it is fixed. Then, they'll update the News section on the website. None of this is really new information, but just thought I’d let everyone know I’ve spoken to someone.

    Looks like it could be a long wait to get full clarification.

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  57. What is the problem with posting the list? I could have hand-written the list of names by now, photocopied it 1200 times, and fedex-ed it to all semifinalists. Just sayin...

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    1. I think they would prefer people to receive an official notice before the list is made public. However, that only makes sense when the notification system actually works. At this point, they should just post the list and get it over with. I haven't received any notification and I get anxious every time my phone has an alert.

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  58. There also could be an official sign off process for publicly posting the list that takes time.

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  59. Has anyone called or sent a email that received both letters? Did they tell you your correct status?

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  60. I called and they said to "wait for an official email"... and "good luck". i received both letters. i'm a'waiting.

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    1. Did they give you any indication of how long that wait might be?

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    2. not at all. they said "maybe by today." "They are working on it as we speak". that was around 11. we are also soon hitting the 24 hour mark first announced on facebook. i am embarrassed.

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    3. You have the slight advantage, at least, of being able to post questions or monitor other people's questions on Facebook. The PMF program office didn't even have a Facebook page in 2009, and there were strange issues with notifications then as well. We were all just in the dark back then.

      This is the fourth consecutive cycle I've observed, and I think there are issues every time. So, uh, welcome to the program? ;)

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  61. My School's PMF coordinator just sent us an e-mail that the PMF program has a policy of not releasing the list until all semi-finalists have been notified by e-mail of their status. I'm not sure how long we'll have to wait, but I've received no e-mails whatsoever.

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    1. yay, thanks! I'm so excited/relieved to be on it.
      For reference, I only got one email, an acceptance, and I'm on the list.

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  63. Whelp, I didn't get in. Really thought I would, so this is incredibly disappointing. I wholeheartedly wish the best of luck to the rest of you in finding appointments.

    (and for reference, I got both the rejection and acceptance emails)

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  65. The list is up. Good luck all. http://www.pmf.gov/become-a-pmf/current-finalists.aspx

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  66. My rejection stayed a rejection. Not surprised I guess, but I was a bit hopeful that it was a mistake. Congratulations to all the finalists, looking forward to hearing what positions you get!

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  68. I made it! I've been on the edge of my seat since last night (I didn't receive any e-mails). Thank you all for providing information about your experiences. This has been a nerve-wracking experience, but it was easier to go through it knowing that others shared my concerns.

    I hope to meet some of you at the fair! And to the other semi-finalists, be sure to reapply next year!

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  69. Just got an official no. Honestly, I have to say that after the misfire of yesterday and the general clunkiness of the interview procedure back in December, I am only moderately disappointed (hmmm, maybe these snafus are a deliberate ploy to make people care less about a rejection...). Congrats to everyone who moved on--hope you wind up with your dream job!

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  70. I have gotten nothing yet myself. All the systems look the same as they last week....

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  71. I am a finalist. I'm glad that this process has finally worked itself out. Congratuations to those who have been selected. I'll see you in DC in Mid to Late March.

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  72. I have yet to receive an email, but had the pleasure of running across the list online. What a process.

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  73. I just got an email subject "Correction for 2012 PMF Notices"
    I was selected as a Finalist.... Did anyone get anything today?
    This is my first email and I did not have anything on Application Manager yesterday.

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  75. I want to echo previous posters' gratitude for this blog. I can't imagine going through the process without it. I appreciate all the work you have put into creating this resource and community.

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  76. Excited to have been selected as a finalist. Congratulations to all selected!

    Do you all have an idea for where you hope to land?

    Is anyone looking to work outside of DC?

    I'm keeping all options open, personally. Honestly, DC is my last choice of location with Indianapolis and Chicago topping the list.

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    1. I'm looking at Denver and Seattle, but I'm really unsure if there'll be a position I'm deeply interested in offered in either of those places.

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  77. I was thankfully selected as a Finalist. Like many, I had not received any e-mails and had nothing on application manager.

    Congrats to all Finalists, and good luck on beginning the job hunt!!!

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  78. Congratulations Finalists! Like many others, I have a lot of questions- not just about the mechanics of the job fair, but really about the PMF program in general. The PMF website provides useful information, but I think there could be more overall detail. For example, is there a PMF orientation? What will the classroom instruction cover and where are the classes held? I realize that some aspects are necessarily vague because of the variety of participating agencies. I'm sure no PMF experience is the same, and so it's not possible to provide too many specifics at this point. But, for those who are current or former PMF's, I'm wondering what advice you have for us newcomers? Aside from prepping for the job fair, what else should we be doing right now? What did you wish you knew when going into the program? Any information will be most helpful.

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    1. Great questions, Matt. I had a set of very similar questions that I was planning on posting. Aside from Matt's questions, I was wondering if we should be contacting PMF coordinators of agencies we are interested in. Generally, are we supposed to be aggressive and seek out connections with agencies or do we really just sit back and hope that agencies contact us before the fair?

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    2. Along that same line of questioning. Is there a place that lists positions that Current or Former PMF's have filled? I wanted to get an idea of what I should be expecting to see at the Job Fair and for openings in general.

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  79. Guys I also received another corrections email this morning, basically stating that I made it (again), my application in USAJOBS also reflects this. I also check the Finals list and I am on that as well so all is good....Mat above, I maybe able to help you out in this regard. I am already a Federal DOD employee the best thing you can do at this point is just get your Resume ready for the job you want to apply for once they are posted. As far as the PMF orientation you will have that within the organization/agency you get selected to, there is NOT a group orientation for all of us. So brush that resume up.

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  80. Thank you very much Jay. This may be a dumb question, but at the job fair, should we be handing out copies of our polished "federal style" resume that was generated using USA Jobs, or our own personal style resume?

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  81. Matt, You can take that approach , But what would be even better way is to wait on the list to come out, Then send a intro letter to that PMF agency head introducing yourself and telling them you have been selected as a Finalist and you are interested in their organization. Send a follow up letter a few weeks before the March DC get together. Attach your Resume to the job your applying for set up a in person interview. DONE!

    The key is you really want to do this for your PRIMARY job you want, all the others you may want to hand out the resumes. You dont want to be a kid in a candy store up there. Focus on the ONE job you want, make contact with that organization first. All others are secondary.

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  82. Current PMF here.

    @Matt - Last year's job fair had a several hour orientation on the first day that covered all the program's requirements, including classroom training, rotations, and the like. Not sure if they are doing this again this year since I haven't been following the process too closely, but it's a good possibility they'll repeat it. Other than that, OPM also holds a one-day PMF orientation held after you secure your placement, and your home agency's PMF coordinator should also hold an orientation just for PMFs as well.

    As for the classroom instruction, the requirement is undefined except that it must be "formal classroom" training and meet the set number of yearly hours. They can be trainings held by your home agency, classes you take at a local university, or trainings held at professional training institutes such as the Graduate School. Topics can be things as vanilla as leadership development and program management, and as diverse as intelligence and IT infrastructure.

    Of course, all program requirements are subject to change once the new Pathways regulations are finalized.

    I brought both my USA Jobs resume and my personal resume to the job fair just in case. I handed out my personal resume exclusively. I also brought with me copies of a list of references and copies of a letter of recommendation from a previous supervisor. Since job offers can be made on the spot at the job fair, it is a good idea to have this information at the ready.

    Other than that, I would start contacting agency PMF coordinators ASAP. The list should be up on the PMF website. A lot of interviews are set up before the job fair and take place at the job fair. Last year some agencies were not even scheduling additional interviews at the job fair since they had already scheduled them. Start pumping all your contacts now.

    I just checked my email archives, and I started contacting PMF coordinators 4 days after being named a finalist last year. Anecdotally, most other finalists started this early as well. You need to be as aggressive as possible. -JT

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  83. JT here again. Just wanted to follow up quickly. I disagree slightly with what Jay says above. In this job market, together with the fact that they only selected ~700 finalists this year, means that positions will likely be hard to come by and more competitive than in previous years. PMF finalists are, again anecdotally, extremely agressive throughout the job hunt process. While having a dream agency in mind is nice, you should explore every possible job opportunity. Remember, the idea of the PMF program is to get highly qualified individuals into the government workforce, not place them in their ideal job right out of the gate. There is plenty of time for that, especially with rotations and details to other agencies once you get your foot in the door.

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  84. Here's the link to Agency Coordinators: https://www.pmf.opm.gov/ACoords.aspx

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  85. Thanks, JT. I concur with your assessments. Unless you have worked or are working for a federal agency, I am betting your picture of federal service differs a bit from reality. One of the ways this can manifest is this idea of a dream job. There may in fact be such a position. Many of you will queue up at the State Department tables at the job fair, thinking that's really the thing you want to do most. But, as I've suggested in the past and JT has said here, keep your eyes open for opportunities that aren't as obvious or as highly demanded. You may be pleasantly surprised at what you can accomplish this way.

    There are pros and cons for each approach, which I will spell out in a separate post.

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  86. Thanks, pmfellow, Jay, JT, and jrunner02 for such helpful information. Another question, which may be quite obvious, is how do you create a USA Jobs Resume? Is that something we create through the USA Jobs website? If so, where do we go on the site to create this? Your help is really appreciated. Thanks!

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    1. Mike, you can create a USAJOBS resume by going to the site, signing into your account, and then go to My Account -> Resumes.

      For what it's worth, I recommend organizing your experience and education details in USAJOBS first, then if you still want to use a traditional resume, copy the information from the USAJOBS resume. It will at least let you become familiar with the type of information that usually appears on a federal resume.

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  87. @Mike - Didn't you have to use an existing USA Jobs resume in order to apply for the program? I seem to remember my USA Jobs resume somehow being tied in with the process.

    The reason I bring this up is that whatever resume you used to apply for the program is the resume that is searchable by PMF coordinators and other hiring officials. You should make sure that this resume is up to date, since at least some agencies contact finalists based solely on their resumes.

    In my case, I received a promotion in between the time I applied for the program and the time I was chosen as a finalist, and wanted to update my resume to reflect this. In the past, the only way to update your resume on file was to fax a printed copy of it to the PMF office. It looks like this is still the case, since the following link has the 2012 cover sheet needed to update your resume.
    http://www.pmf.gov/become-a-pmf/application-process.aspx

    In my case, I had two unsolicited interview offers before the job fair based on my resume, so I think it is worthwhile to update it when possible.

    But anyways, I should be around if anyone else has any questions about the process, job fair, or my PMF experiences. I know that I was extremely stressed out during the whole application process, so I think forums like this are useful for sharing information.

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    1. JT,

      I uploaded my own formatted resume instead of the USA Jobs resume format. Which leads me to my next question. Should we be using a USA Jobs Resume format or should we be using our own traditional resume format? I'm assuming that the USA Jobs format is preferred, but if someone could confirm that it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks JT and pmfellow for your help. This information is making the process much easier.

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    2. It's really up to you what format you use at the job fair and such. The only real advantage to the USAJOBS resume is that it organizes the information that's usually on a federal resume; if you don't have any familiarity with them, it can be helpful to have it as a guide.

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    3. Great! Thanks for such a quick response pmfellow. Okay one more question and I promise that's it. (haha at least for today)

      In regards to contacting PMF coordinators now, are we trying to solicit interviews for the fair and attaching resumes, cover letters, writing samples,like we would when normally applying to jobs.

      Or is it more of an introductory email stating that we are really interested in the position and giving a little background about ourselves?

      I know it really might depend on the situation/preference, but I was wondering if there is a general consensus on how to go about emailing the coordinators. Thank so much for your help!

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  88. Thanks all who are making themselves available for questions and giving great advice!

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  89. Does anyone know if it's possible to convert a normal position to a PMF position? I just got called to do an interview for a job I had a applied for a couple months ago and it sounds like as if the interview is merely a formality.

    Any insight would be grealy appreciated.

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    1. I would discuss it with HR. The PMF position has some advantages like the potential for accelerated promotion but it is also, technically, a limited term job for only 2 years. So depending on your situation and future plans it might or might not be a preferred option. Usually there is a full-time position for PMFs to convert into, and I'm not concerned about it myself, but that's something to be aware of.

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  90. @Mike - I don't know what advice the other current PMFs on here have, but at this point I think you should be reaching out to agency-wide PMF coordinators to see what agencies will actually be hiring. A lot of the agencies that are listed with contacts on the coordinator page were not hiring last year due to budget constraints. Most of the coordinators are kind enough to get back to you within a week or so to let you know if they anticipate hiring PMFS or not. Therefore, I think reaching out and gauging how many/what type of agencies are actually hiring is a good idea.

    Getting your name and resume in with the agency-wide coordinators will let them have you in mind when their component offices come to them looking to hire PMFs. They will then have your resume on file or might make a list of PMFs that contacted them by interest. At the very least, the agency-wide coordinators can point you towards the hiring officials of their component offices who you can contact.

    I would just write a brief introductory email saying I'm interested in their agency and include my resume. You should also know that tons of finalists will be contacting the coordinators starting now and they will be inundated with emails. As you can see on the coordinator list, for example, State only has two PMF coordinators. I think all 850 finalists from last year emailed them the week after the the finalist list came out. Their mailboxes are probably already starting to fill up and, as you can read in the blog posts from last year, they stopped accepting emails from interested finalists as some point. Don't be surprised if coordinators at the more desired agencies don't get back to you or email back to say they stopped accepting resumes.

    I don't think you need to start doing cover letters until agencies start putting specific job postings on the PPS system. These postings only really picked up last year immediately before and after the job fair.

    @Rob - This question comes up all the time and I don't know if anyone has an accurate answer for you. I don't personally know of any PMFs that converted a normal position to a PMF one. You definitely need an open FTE line to hire a PMF, which it sounds like your agency has since they are interested in bringing you on board. The other thing is that agencies must pay OPM a $7,000 recruiting fee to hire a PMF, which your agency might be hesitant to do. I don't know how the logistics would work, but I assume that anything is possible. I would probably call your HR contact and ask them, or wait until they make a formal written offer and then bring it up.

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    1. @JT Awesome! Thanks for such a comprehensive response.

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  91. Hello fellow finalists!!
    For JT or others...
    For those of you starting to contact PMF agencies-- do you suggest contacting just one individual per department? For example, a lot of agencies have a PMF 'primary' and 'secondary'-- Is it best to email both or assume that one leads to the other? Similarly, for the agencies that have tons of branches-- are you emailing the 'Agency Wide PMF Coordinator' AND the one in the branch your prefer, or just one?
    Thanks!

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  92. For some reason the Reply button isnt working for me... Anyway, JT do make great points about getting your foot in the door, i think for me its a bit different as I am already a DOD GS employee, so I am more so looking at what else can I move into (since im already in).

    As far as asking about Resumes, since all jobs have moved over from CHART to USAJOBS, there is no real right or wrong way to do your resume layout, you can do it in the standard 2 page (private sector) format if you want or in the old CHART format. It really doesnt matter. long as the information is in the resume.

    @Allie from friends who I know are PMF's now its best to just contact one Agency rep from the contacts on the PMF page.

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    1. In response to Allie's question, are you saying to just be sending one e-mail to the main PMF coordinator from each agency? For example, DHS has roughly 25 people listed as contacts for all of the sub agencies. Should we only be sending one e-mail to the primary coordinator for all of DHS even if we are interested in only a few specific departments?

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  93. Thank you all for this great information! I have another question about resumes. The memo to the PMF class of 2012 recommends "updating" your resume. I take this to mean updating the most recent work/educational history information since first uploading the resume back in September. However, what if we would like to make more extensive revisions to our resume? By this, I mean adding more overall detail to the resume? Or, should the resume be kept relatively straightforward without excessive detail? I have read that proper "federal style" resumes should contain much more detail than your average personal resume, but I don't know the extent to which this is true. Thanks again for all of your assistance.

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    1. I'm also wondering if people are using a longer, "federal" resume or just a 2-pg one when emailing agency coordinators.

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    2. Personally I've been using a shorter one. At this stage, I think coordinators are going to be overwhelmed, and seeing the USAJobs format is a bit...wordy?
      But obviously...as I'm a finalist and not a PMF...who knows if my way is the best =P

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  94. Personally, I will be using my federal resume it is about 5 1/4 pages. The reason I decided to do this is I do have quite a lot of experience so I did want to detail my qualifications for a few very targeted agencies departments I would like to be considered for an appointment.

    For someone without direct experience/training to fill up a narrative tailored to the position or agency you are inquiring about, and/or you are open to a broad range of positions. I believe that a finished resume that packs a lot of punch at two pages would be more eye catching and better suited for coordinators/interviewers that may get potentially several hundred other resumes.

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  95. Congratulations finalists. At least you are starting considerably earlier than we did last year. And maybe you'll avoid the "excitement" of a potential federal shutdown the week of the job fair!

    Here's a resource I'd like to suggest as you work up your resumes and prepare for job applications. GovLoop has everything from detailed articles to outright ads so keep the source in mind, but it can be useful. Here's a recent post about perfecting a federal resume: http://www.govloop.com/profiles/blogs/avoid-these-10-common-pitfalls-in-your-federal-resume-work

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  96. @Allie and others - I don't know about any of the other finalists from last year, but I exclusively sent out my personal resume to PMF coordinators before the job fair. I also only handed out my personal resume while at the fair. This seemed to work for me since I set up four interviews for the job fair ahead of time. I think the most important thing at this point in the process, like someone else said, might be to catch someone's eye rather than to be exhaustive and include all your experiences, especially if you are coming straight from grad school with limited work experience.

    I agree with what another commenter said in that unless you have substantial work experience it might be better to go the two-page resume route so as not to overwhelm the coordinators.

    When I was emailing coordinators, I would usually send it to the agency-wide coordinator and CC the secondary agency coordinator. I did not, for example, email all 25 coordinators for DHS if I was interested in DHS.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that the agency-wide coordinators usually administrate the PMF program as their full time jobs (or have it as part of their full time jobs along with managing other student and intern programs). They are usually very on top of developments in the program and are aware of when the finalist list comes out, for example.

    For many of the smaller component coordinators, they are usually just an HR or other mission support specialist who has been given the PMF program as collateral work. They might be unaware of how the program functions or unaware that the finalist list has even come out. Of course, this seems to depend on how well the agency as a whole runs and how organized the agency-wide coordinator is. This is just something to keep in mind when emailing coordinators.

    A lot of people last year also seemed to have success by calling coordinators directly. They certainly got more prompt and timely responses to their inquiries in this manner. However, this seems to have been a minority of finalists and I personally did not do this, so I can't vouch for its effectiveness. -JT

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  97. I saw in the thread from last year that people shared updates on the agencies not attending the job fair so I wanted to do the same this year for my fellow finalists. DOJ is on a hiring freeze and won't be at the Job Fair. Also, Office of Special Counsel is not hiring this year but they may have rotation positions available. Looks like a bad year to be a law school grad.

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  98. Agency updates:
    Dept. of Veteran's Affairs.
    It looks like they have not finished determining the number of positions that will be available yet. The agency contact Adriana Hamilton said they will be posting on the PPS and attending the job fair so it sounds that VA will not be prescheduling any interviews.

    National Institute of Health.
    Agency contact Virginia Hill emailed a link to http://www.jobs.nih.gov/intern/about_pmi.html Below is her explanation of the application/interview process.

    "If you’re interested in being considered for an interview, please send a cover letter describing in detail your interest in NIH and what career track(s) you’re interested in at our agency. Along with the cover letter, please re-submit your resume. Send the documents to pmfinfo@nih.gov.

    Please note that NIH conducts on-site interviews at the NIH campus in Bethesda, MD on the day before the OPM Job Fair officially begins. "

    All of the information like "career tracks" are explained on NIH website listed above. Hope this will help some of you in the process

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    1. Is there a comprehensive "career track" listing that I'm missing?? I see a list of examples, but nothing comprehensive....

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  99. Also I received a response from Martha Andrews the Dept. of Air Force coordinator.
    She mentioned that there were no positions in D.C. area (which is where I am looking) although said there are openings at the Los Angeles AFB Ca. She didn't mention the positions but if they are similar to positions available for the 2011 class they are at the Space and Missile Systems Center. So if anyone is looking for a position in that field/location she would be a good contact for you.

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  100. As far as my replies...
    Congressional Research Service will not be hiring. I don't know if they plan to be at the Job Fair, but my email response made it clear that budget cuts do not seem optimistic.

    African Development Foundation has incorrect emails-- both primary and secondary-- your emails *will* be returned in error. The PMF office has an email from me about that, but who knows if they'll update it any time soon.

    Dept of Homeland Security didn't give me the boot, but they reminded me that the 2011 Finalists still will take first priority over any available slots until March. A curious response in my opinion, simply because I wasn't exactly asking to start tomorrow! But that said-- maybe that's something for us early-bird-emailers to keep in mind - we might be ahead of them!!

    Lastly, I spoke to someone at State who said similarly. Apparently the PMF was actually quick to release info this year-- possibly because of the systems error. Otherwise, the official finalist list may have not even been released until next week or later.

    Thank you everyone for posting this info!!

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  101. Also-- is anyone else getting an error when they go to the PPS site? I think it's just because there is nothing posted right now but, I get a popup error that says 'There is no row at position 0.'

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    1. I'm getting the same message. If you search for specific agencies and regions, it has a small list of jobs that were posted at the end of last year. For example, if you search within the DC region, you'll find a small number of older jobs listed there. I'm hoping that they'll update the website soon.

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  102. Another tip for those of you starting to look: Department of Defense, like NIH, has a sort of separate PMF application process. Last year at least their application was due the week of the job fair if you were interested in DOD. It was fairly long so something that pays to start ahead of time.

    Now I'm not at DOD and I don't know anyone who is so this may be fairly outdated info. But they take all sorts of majors and it might be something to look into that you wouldn't necessarily think of right off. I certainly didn't until it was too late.

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    1. Is there a DOD agency wide point of contact?

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  103. The Corporation for National Community Service isn't planning on hiring this year. Not too big of a surprise since I don't think they've had a PMF in a while and their budget is up in the air, but thought I'd share anyway.

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