Friday, April 1, 2011

2011 PMF Job Fair: To Go or Not to Go. Plus Planning Tips

[Also posted here]

Now that the 2011 Presidential Management Fellows finalist list is out, the 850 of you who made it will be wondering whether or not to attend the upcoming PMF job fair, currently scheduled for April 19-21 (the venue is still undecided, but in the past it's been hosted at the Walter E. Washington Convention Center).

So, should you attend or not? I always say it depends on where you are, what your background is, and what you're interested in. I think I speak for most current and former PMFs when I say that the value of the job fair isn't exactly measurable, but almost everyone I've talked to about it thought it was a good idea to have gone; many of us got our jobs at the PMF job fair, and many more of us got our jobs as a result of having made connections there. Plus you will get to meet people from all over the federal government, including current and former PMFs who are excited to be welcoming in the next class (if we weren't, we wouldn't be working at the job fair; I plan to work it this year myself). In short, this is an excellent opportunity that, while it may not result in an on-the-spot job offer, nevertheless provides access to many agencies. And one other thing: just because you talk with the agency of your dreams and they don't hire you, that doesn't mean you can't eventually work with them, perhaps on your developmental assignment or a short rotation. These things are immeasurably valuable.

Now, will every agency be there? No, certainly not. There are agencies who, for whatever reason, either don't know about PMF or the fair, or don't participate in the fair. Also, if you are looking for something outside the DC area, the opportunities are not quite as broad (but they do exist; some agencies headquarter themselves away from DC).

Let's say you've decided to attend. Got your plane ticket and hotel reservation in hand, and are ready to go. Now what? Do you start contacting agencies? If so, who at those agencies? And should you load up your schedule with interviews over the three days? In general, I think these are all good ideas. Don't overload yourself too much, because you will want some time to breathe, but do remember that the more people you can talk to, the better your chances of snagging a job. This is your time to learn as much about the various federal agencies as possible, while trying to make an impression yourself.

Next, I think we should talk about something that people continually bring up. What if you don't really know what you can do or want to do in federal service, or the thing you really want to do isn't available? Do you take the first thing that comes along? In this case you really only have a few options. If you take a job you know you will not like, you are definitely setting yourself and your employer up for disappointment. However, if you approach this process with an open mind, you may be surprised at the kinds of opportunities that you find available. Keep in mind that two years is both a long time and a short time. It is a long time in that over the length of your fellowship, you could work on a variety of projects and assignments (of course, you could also only work on one; seek the variety level that appeals to you), so just because you are hired to do one thing does not mean that you will always be doing that (good or bad). It is a short time in that, once you've started, it seems like there almost isn't enough time to learn everything you need to do your job, get all your training hours, and fit in a 4-6 month developmental assignment. I hope I have conveyed a sense of the variety that is available in this program. Hackneyed platitudes about our "future leaders" aside, this program really does have the potential to provide you access to the kinds of situations people spend a good deal of a career aspiring to.

And finally plenty of people have asked about how to get to DC, where to stay, and how to get around in a cost-conscious manner. I've detailed some of my recommendations in a similar post from last year (linked at the end of the article), but I will reiterate some of them here:

  • Plan Ahead: Most of your last minute and underplanned decisions come with extra cost.  Learn everything you can about the airport you're flying into, the hotel you're staying at, the Convention Center, and how to move between them effectively and cheaply.  Also, this may or may not apply, but if you're arriving from a warmer part of the country, bring a jacket!  It was cold (45 degrees) last year and raining half the time.
  • Fly Southwest: Most of the time (but not always), their fares are the lowest you'll find.  Consider flying into BWI instead of Reagan.  Southwest had some great direct flights into BWI, which saved me time and money. Also, it's not very difficult to get back to DC by train: the MARC train, when I took it last year, was $6 each way, and the Amtrak was $12 each way.  It takes planning to pull it off, but it beats catching cabs everywhere
  • Walk Everywhere: If you managed to snag decent accommodations close enough to the Convention Center, try walking.  It's free.  Of course, if it's raining, this may be less desirable unless you're only going a few blocks.
  • ...Or Learn the Bus Routes: Sure, the subway is fast, and sometimes it's convenient too.  But not always.  The buses cover large areas that are not well served by the metro trains, and in many cases you can plan door to door, minimizing your walk time.  Learn to use the WMATA Trip Planner to find good bus routes, and supplement that with the Next Bus tool (also mobile formatted so you can check it from your web-enabled phone).  If you need another reason to consider buses: they are $0.40 cheaper per ride than the trains, and you can transfer for free within 3 hours if you...
  • ...Get a SmarTrip Card: Paying cash costs more (ten cents, which I know isn't much) per ride than paying with a SmarTrip Card.  It's a $10 minimum investment ($5 for the card and a $5 initial balance), but you can easily rack up more than that in transit costs over the course of the job fair.  Also, if you are going to eventually move to DC, you'll want one anyway.  The other benefit of the SmarTrip Card is that it enables the free bus transfers mentioned above, since Metro no longer issues the paper kind.  This can save you money.
  • Consider Hosteling: Hotels are nice, but that comes with a pretty steep markup.  I don't know of any hotels in the DC area that are both nice and cost less than $75 a night (as listed on Kayak; this rate was for a room in College Park, Maryland).  Most will be significantly higher.  Consider this alternative: Hosteling International runs a hostel within walking distance of the Convention Center.  Their rates run well below hotel rates: $25-$45 a night for dorm style rooms.  Admittedly, it can be tough to get good quality sleep, but you're only going to be there for like three nights.  One other note: if you aren't a member of Hosteling International, you'll have to pay an extra $3 per night as a temporary membership fee.  It's still worth it, in my opinion, since the location is so good.  Also, it's a great way to meet other people from all over the world.


And now I would like to solicit your ideas, things you've observed and, especially from readers of this blog who are themselves current or former PMFs (I'm grateful that you've stopped by to share your wisdom).

Links:

564 comments:

  1. For anyone who went to the Job Fair in the past: Do we need to be there for all 3 days? And do we need to be there all day for all three days? I am trying to determine whether it would be a good idea to fly in during the day on Tuesday, the first day of the fair, which means I would miss the majority of the first day. Please advise!

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  2. Usually the 3 days break down like this: On day 1, there is an orientation and a meet and greet. On day 2, the actual job fair starts, and finalists get to talk to all of the agencies at their exhibits and participate in any scheduled interviews. On day 3, more of the same. On day 2 the job fair usually closes around 4:00 PM, and on day 3 it usually closes around 3:00 PM. If you can't make it to the first day, I wouldn't sweat it.

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  3. At the same time, there may be a downside to missing the first day of the actual job fair (not the meet and greet) in that some agencies have interview slots available on a first come basis. Those slots can fill rather quickly.

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  4. Location, location, location. I'm already in DC. Just had to throw that out there.

    But seriously, related to the job fair and straight from the horses mouth (so to speak):

    "We do not anticipate opening any other positions for now due to a hiring freeze at the Department of Labor and tied to the FY 2011 budget. Nevertheless, keep your eyes open in the event the hiring freeze is lifted and we are given the permission to start hiring again."
    - the PMF coordinator at DOL

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  5. Yeah, it could be rough this time around. I would think that's all the more reason to go to the job fair. Anyone disagree with that assessment?

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  6. pmfellow... What are your thoughts of remaining in town and being available on the day after the job fair? I previously heard some agencies did follow up interviews or office meet and greets on the day after the job fair. I'll be traveling and don't want to miss out on that opportunity, but also don't want to accept the additional cost for no reason. Any advice?

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  7. pmfellow - This is more specific and probably less helpful to the masses, but do you have any suggestions/experience in terms of someone wanting to be in a location that is NOT DC/main gov't areas due to a family situation?

    Would you recommend speaking to agencies in advance, or would you ask about it during interviews, or is that likely to decrease your chances of getting a job? Can you at least get rotations through non-gov't geographical locations?

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  8. It's definitely possible to get assignments and rotations outside of the DC area. The biggest factor is where you are located and/or where you are willing to work. Obviously federal agencies aren't EVERYwhere, but there are offices in often surprising places. Agencies like GSA, EPA, VA, IRS, Energy, Education, and SSA have regional offices and dispersed operations, data centers, and other kinds of facilities in many locations. Obviously DoD and the military branches have bases all over the place. I have heard a statistic that 85% of federal employees live outside the DC area; whether that's apocryphal or not, I don't know, but it is not unreasonable when you think about it.

    My best advice for searching for these kinds of jobs is to start with USAJOBS and try radius searching for the city you are interested in, that way you can get an idea of the agencies that are there. The down side to this approach is that, if an agency doesn't have any job openings in that location, you just won't see the agency listed. Other than that, Google Maps will be your friend.

    I'm not sure what else I can tell you. If anyone else has experience looking for PMF positions outside DC, we could use any advice you have.

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  9. I've stayed in College Park here: http://www.collegeparkinn.com/ its further out but they shuttle you to the metro and it's pretty inexpensive.

    It might be worth sucking up the extra $ to stay near the job fair site though.

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  10. Should finalists be e-mailing agency coordinators right now to set up interviews at the job fair? Is there a different way to contact agencies that they prefer?

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  11. In Responese to getting a job outside of DC...
    Most of the fellow PMF's that I have met are outside of DC. I have people that are in my PMF class that are in ATL; Jackson, MS; Seatlle; Denver; Albequery, NM (or however you spell it); Little Rock, AR; San Fransico; Philadelphia; Houston...to name a few. They are really everywhere.

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  12. Two questions.

    1. Same question as @8:58. I'm traveling from REALLY far (another continent). Flying out Friday is a bit more expensive, but since I've come so far, I wonder if its worth it to keep my options open if there are more interviews. Any thoughts?

    2. As far as requesting offices outside DC, does this affect promotion potential at all if you end up in one of the small, regional offices?

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  13. Is anybody still concerned that the government will shutdown next Friday? That's a lot of money for me to be on the hook for if the job fair doesn't happen.

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  14. @ 1:02 Question #2
    No, even if you are in a small office, it does not determine your promotion potential

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  15. Has anyone been contacted by an agency, yet?

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  16. I received an email today from someone who saw my resume and wanted to see if I was interested in a PMF position that they would be supervising. Exciting, since I thought I would be doing all the seeking!

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  17. Has anyone figured out how to update their resume? I hope we really don't have to fax in updates as mentioned on our previous discussion.

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  18. I faxed mine in today, such a pain! I called them first to make sure I understood it. The bottom of the page CANNOT go into the machine first or their system wont recognize it!

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  19. I haven't been contacted by anyone. I've been proactive in contacting the reps for the various agencies I want to work for, but I have yet to receive a response. I'm hoping that it's because it's Friday. Has anyone else had this problem?

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  20. I have had a similar problem. Truth be told, a couple of the agencies I did hear back from were talking about how they are not planning on hiring PMF's for this cycle...or at least at this point in time.

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  21. @8:47 - would you possible share which agencies said they weren't planning on hiring?

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  22. Another current PMF here (class of 2010). Here are my job fair tips:
    1. Make appointments in advance if you can - I did this mostly by using the PPS and contacting those places I was interested- email/resume. This way, I was able to get in touch with folks who were not planning on being at the job fair, but had PMF positions (agencies are charged to attend the job fair). Plus, the job fair feels really chaotic and it's nice to have some things set in advance. And, it's nice to get to see the agencies when you can.

    2. Try to stay Friday. People will do call backs, again sometimes at the agency itself.

    3. Don't just rely on the PPS. I got my job (which is exactly what I wanted at an agency that is notoriously competitive) through a recruiter at my university. She put me in touch with the right person who happened to have a position available that she was able to convert into a PMF slot. Bringing people in through PMF is much easier for agencies, so often they are able/anxious to convert existing openings.

    Happy to answer questions.

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  23. @ 4/2 5:50 AM

    Thanks for your post, it was very helpful. I already purchased my ticket and will fly out of DC at 4:40pm on Friday. Do you think that is sufficient, or should I just fly our Saturday? I really want to maximize my chances of meeting with agencies.

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  24. How important is the first day (orientation and meet and greet)? Since I need to minimize the # of days I'm there as much as possible (it's the week before finals), it almost sounds like it might be more efficient to plan on being there 21-22 Apr than 19-21? Is one day at the job fair portion enough time? If so, is it better to go the first day of the actual job fair portion (the 20th) than the 2d day (is everything picked over by the 2d day)? So many decisions!

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  25. @ 6:23AM, I think you should be fine with your Friday plan.

    @ 8:06AM, I think the orientation part is completely skipable. Something that you'll hear over and over again is that PMF differs agency to agency, so hearing the overall OPM PMF requirements is not that useful. I would try to be there for the first day that employers will be there,

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  26. @PMFellow or @CurrentFellows:
    What does the 80 hours of formal training look like for you? Do you enroll in courses at a local college, or do your agencies provide the training? Also what kind of training are you getting? Organizational or business management, or are they more technical like statistics or evaluation methods course?

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  27. And do you get paid for this time?

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  28. Is it too ballsy to ask for a phone interview if I know I'm going to the job fair? There are a few positions that I know I really want and would accept immediately, even before the job fair.

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  29. @PMFellow or @CurrentFellows:

    Is the PMF training more difficult to obtain for people who select positions outside of DC? How about rotations? Do you feel that PMFs outside of DC miss out on a lot of the experience?

    @ 4/2 1:03PM: I say go for it, Susan Johnston style :-)

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  30. What is a good strategy for contacting before hand? Call? Email? I was thinking I would just email the coordinator and tell them why I am interested in working with them, and ask if they are participating in the fair or if I can have an interview while I am down there. I would also attach my resume. I am talking for the agencies that aren't on PPS, because the ones on there have instructions of what to contact them with.

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  31. @ 3:49 I am emailing and planning to follow up with a call in the next couple of days. I like to think that when someone has your resume in front of them, they are more equipped to say whether or not you merit an interview than when you are just a random on the phone.

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  32. Are you all sending your Federal Resume or a standard resume? The USA Jobs resume builder results in a long and dense resume that I wouldn't want to read if I were a recruiter but I know that govt agencies are looking for comprehensive information rather than something that's easy to navigate. Thoughts?

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  33. Federal resumes are supposed to include everything. I spoke to a federal HR person once who said that resumes of 7-10 pages are not uncommon.

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  34. At the job fair should we pass out the federal resume, or use a personal resume? I understand the need for information, but at the same time I can't imagine carrying around so many papers.

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  35. I plan to distribute a 2 page resume at the job fair. I see no need to hand out a 7-8 page resume in USA jobs format. Is anyone else with me on this?

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  36. Yeah, carrying around a phone book's worth of resumes is simply not practical. Go for the 2-pager at the fair and save the 7-page version for online submissions.

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  37. I will bring a copy of my federal resume, which is 3 or 4 pages. I think 7 pages is extreme, unless the applicant is on a second or third career. For a recent graduate, 3-4 pages is enough. I'm not including details on publications and presentations, but I am including a significant amount of detail on jobs and internships, which is normal for federal resumes.

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  38. I received 3 e-mail notification alerts from USA Jobs this morning (on a Sunday?!), each one saying my application had been "referred to the selecting official." I'm not sure I understand what that means - I thought all resumes were in one location on the PMF website where all agencies could search - not that your resume would need to be referred first? Do you have any insight to this?

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  39. @7:33AM

    I also got the three emails, but I know that--having applied to a bazillion jobs on USAjobs-- "Referred to selecting official" is just the system's automatic reply when you are moving on to the final stage of a job application (i.e. haven't been cut yet). In the case of most jobs, HR people sort through all the resumes, pick the top 10% or so, and forward the best to the selecting official to decide who he or she would like to interview. In our case, since we have already been named finalists, the email is just reiterating the "yay, you passed!" message from a few days ago. So, congrats!

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  40. The posts on this blog have become so lame since the finalist were announced. I miss the exciting days of Ehab and the intense analysis of any minute change to the PMF Facebook page. Can we please find something to stress about again?

    ....OMG, the federal government is going to shut down and there is going to be no career fair and none of us will ever get jobs. I'm serious!

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  41. Yeah, this blog is dead now. It's a shame. I assumed that the finalists would continue to share information and excitement on here, but it looks like everyone left.

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  42. Happens every time, but hopefully a few of you will come back next year to encourage and/or heckle next year's aspiring PMFs.

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  43. Though we are not crazed anymore, there are still a lot of questions this blog can answer.

    For example, does anyone have a good suggestion on where I can find information on what a Federal Government resume should look like. I have never created one before. Thanks.

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  44. I use USAJOBS to build the resume and then save it from the printable view. That gets you a federal formatted resume.

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  45. @pmffellow:

    How much history should a federal resume contain other than education/professional experience? Would you recommend including less than professional under-grad jobs, under-grad internships, etc? The resume I generally use is 1.5 pages and includes recent, relevant experience. Should I elaborate everything in detail on the federal resume???

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  46. Include anything that highlights the items listed out under the Executive Core Qualifications. These kinds of details matter.

    http://www.opm.gov/ses/recruitment/ecq.asp

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  47. @ 10:09AM and 10:29AM

    I used these two webpages to make mine:
    http://www.usajobs.gov/ei/tentips.asp and http://www.usajobs.gov/ei/resumeandapplicationtips.asp

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  48. Do you think the best approach is to contact the agency coordinators or apply for non-PMF postings on USA jobs? Or both?

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  49. While we are waiting for more details on this year's job fair, it might be helpful to refer to last year's job fair agenda when planning travel: https://www.pmf.opm.gov/Documents/pub_agenda.pdf

    If a similar agenda is followed, it seems likely that Day 1 will not start until the afternoon. Also the morning of Day 2 may offer an abbreviated (1 hour instead of 3 hours) welcome and training session for those who can not attend Day 1.

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  50. Serious post. I need some advice. I'm not sure whether or not I should attend the DC fair. The financial costs aren't the issue. The issue is that my wife is expected to deliver twin girls around that time. I missed the birth of our first daughter. I'd hate to miss another delivery, but I just don't know. Thoughts?

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  51. @ 3:03PM

    Lol, I'm in a similar situation, except that I'm the one about to give birth (well, my due date is a bit later, May 11).

    I have decided to attend the job fair anyway, but I realize that I'm taking a risk, so my husband is coming with me from IL to DC. He's scouting nearby hospitals and will be "on call" just in case.

    Your case is different in a few respects, but I think the main thing to consider is your wife's wishes. If she really feels she needs you, you should probably stay. Alternatively, if she has a lot of other support (family, friends, doula, etc), it might be okay to chance it (especially if you just attend days 2&3 of the job fair). Also, you probably have already heard this, but keep in mind that twins nearly ALWAYS come early (ahead of the due date by at least 2 weeks).

    Good luck with whatever decision you make and congrats on the impending additions to your family & your selection as a PMF finalist!

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  52. @PMFFellow or @Current/Previous Fellows or @Anyone else who wants to chime in:

    I am in a bind because I already have a professional job, but will be forced to quit if I attend the job fair because work requirements will not allow me the time off that week. I can support myself without working for about 3 months. What would you suggest? Quit, go the job fair, and prepare myself for the next chapter in life, or skip the job fair? I have dreamed of being a PMF for 3 years and don't see myself staying in my current position long-term. I have a business background and am not sure how competitive the PMF placements are in this area.

    Being a finalist is bitter sweet, which is something I never expected. It will be difficult to leave friends behind and move to DC alone. I won't give up the opportunity, but it will be challenging on a personal level. Is anyone else feeling this way? Are others unattached and faced with moving alone?

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  53. Do the resumes we use need to be in the USA Jobs format, or can we use another style?

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  54. @5:06.

    Simple. Skip the job fair. Keep your job and current income flow.

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  55. @506

    I too have a full time job, not going to stay there forever, and have a somewhat similar conflicting feeling on being a finalist. Im going to the job fair bc I have the work flexibility, but am unsure about relocating to DC. Family, friends, community = important too. I am in a geographic area such that PMF spots will likely be in my area, so I'll be on the look out for those. But if I dont do the fair, I know I'll regret it, and figure I need to just man up and take a swing at it. My stakes arent as high as yours (loosing job), but I certainly get where you are coming from. All I can say is, do what you want deep down, not what is expected of you. If that means going to DC, do it. If that means staying wherever you are, stay. At cross roads like this it is no time to fool yourself. Good luck.

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  56. Thanks @5:25 and @7:00

    This will be a tough decision. Thanks for you feedback. Are their any other view points out there?

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  57. I feel very nervous about the job fair and my chances of getting a fellowship position. It seems like really an unknown and I haven't heard any good advice on how to best go about having a successful job fair. Hearing about hiring freezes and government shut downs scares me. I need to get a job from this or I will have to move back home with my mother who will constantly hound me until I find work, making my life miserable. Just venting a bit, good luck to everyone =)

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  58. U.S. Forest Service sent out a list to "Valued Partners" of all of the Forest Service positions that they will have available this year. An excerpt about their hiring: "The Forest Service has found that getting an early start at PMF recruitment has been a productive approach. We have hired several of our PMF's prior to the job fair. We hope that you can help us by sharing this list with PMF finalist from your university as soon as they are notified of this."

    Looks like Forest Service will be trying to fill their positions before the job fair. Just as a head's up to anyone who is looking at USFS.

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  59. I think my biggest worry about obtaining a fellowship is that I do not have a lot of experience. I went straight from undergraduate to graduate degree. Considering everyone has about the same level of education, it seems to me that experience will be the only thing that differentiates people. If this is the case, I have reason to believe I will not necessarily fair very well.

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  60. Are these departments going to be willing to conduct phone interviews? That's something I would really love to do.

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  61. @3:03: Maybe, where there's a will, there's a way. Is there anyway you could schedule job interviews around that time? before? after? I mean, you DO have a pretty good excuse.

    @5:06: Call in sick? I feel you on DC though. I know few people there and I have no idea what this is going to do to my relationship with my boyfriend... I feel like I have to choose between career/ambition and personal life.

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  62. @ the people with jobs already: If I were in your position I would remember that you have a full year to get a PMF position. While many of us are eager beavers to get a job because we have been unemployed for way too long, you have the opportunity to look all year for jobs and pick the one that fits you best. I know when we were going through this process PMF was posting jobs intermittently on the PPS site. As any investor will tell you never walk away from a sure thing, but never turn down a better opportunity.

    Best!

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  63. @5:06 and 7:00
    I don't think anybody really wants to move to DC. Out of the two dozen or so people I met in grad school who have lived there, almost no one had a favorable view of the area. The only people I've found who enjoy it out there are hot women in their twenties who love the ample nightlife and opportunities to meet a rich guy who will take care of them (so that they can quit their jobs and not work; it's called Job Before Marriage - JBM - in DC. I am not joking about this).

    Personally, I'm looking forward to getting into a serious career because I've spent enough of my working life in jobs I couldn't stand. I don't like leaving friends either, but I've moved quite a bit in the last decade and have become used to the disappointment of leaving people behind. Unlike you guys, I'm not currently working, but I have been looking for federal employment for about 10 months now to no avail. The PMF is not only the best opportunity I've had, but unfortunately, it's also the only one. I'm going to take full advantage of this, moving be damned.

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  64. @8:29
    One of my classmates was in the same situation last year, i.e. no experience whatsoever except for school. He managed to find a job but was also offered another position for which he had absolutely no background in. He told me that a lot of the job fair depends on how positive your attitude is and if the recruiters like you. He also stated that he manged to get his current position after the job fair and that many finalists end up doing likewise. I would just maintain an optimistic attitude and remember that not finding placement at the job fair is not the end of the world.

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  65. I received two responses from agencies saying they are not hiring from the PMF Program this year. One, however, would be happy to consider a rotation only if my home agency is willing to continue paying my salary during that rotation.

    Thanks for all the hard work on reducing the deficit, Obama.

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  66. Your home agency is supposed to continue to pay your salary while you are on rotation.

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  67. @7:06 - would you consider sharing which agencies you said weren't hiring? We could probably remove some duplication of effort and annoyance for the agencies if we shared information.

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  68. @7:06 - I am also curious as to what agencies will not be participating this year. Someone posted earlier that the Dept of Labor is one such agency. I have also emailed some agency reps but have yet to receive a response. When I do, I will certainly share them here.

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  69. I'm not @7:06, but so far for me, DOJ Civil said no hire.

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  70. The DOL has positions posted on the PPS, so that would seem to indicate that they are participating, right?

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  71. Don't be frightened away by @10:19-- DC is a great city and there's a ton of fun stuff to do, if you know where to find it. Two of my favorite event sites are dcist and brightest young things. Lots of smart young people doing crazy things-- I have never heard of this "JBM culture", but if you want to avoid it, just don't live in Georgetown or Bethesda.

    Also, if you're looking for accommodations, check out Couch Surfing! It's free, not as sterile as a hotel/hostel, and you'll probably get a good feel of one of dc's great neighborhoods, instead of being stuck in convention center wasteland.

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  72. Yeah I also don't know what @10:19 is talking about.. I have lived here for 7 years and LOVE IT. Logan Circle is not that far from the convention center, a cute neighborhood, and has some relatively cheap hotels - check out the Double Tree.

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  73. A subagency at HHS told me they have a hiring freeze in place until the FY '11 budget is clarified.

    This could be a common response from agencies this year. Perhaps there will be less hiring than usual at the job fair but then there will be a rush to hire PMFs once agencies know what their budgets look like. Of course, for most agencies, those budgets will likely be smaller than last year.

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  74. Did OSD send an e-mail to all finalists?

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  75. OSD sent me (a non-security student) a solicitation. Looks like they are excited about hiring this year... that makes one!

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  76. I just got one from OSD as well (who said they won't be conducting interviews at the job fair).

    Also looked through their application process... anyone else slightly annoyed by the fact that you have to "start over" and submit resumes, cover letters, letters of rec, transcripts, etc.? Sigh...

    ReplyDelete
  77. I also got the OSD email. I am sure they sent it to everyone, even though I do have a background that would likely interest them. I also talked to the DOT and they will be at the fair.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Only two more jobs today, PPS? Come on, guys

    ReplyDelete
  79. I sent my resume in response to a position listed on PPS. I just received a call from the contact person saying that they actually don't have the budget to fill the position. Awesome.

    ReplyDelete
  80. I have contacted a few agencies, and all have said to check the PPS, funny, since some of them have nothing up on it yet! I think there will be a bunch coming soon!

    ReplyDelete
  81. It was a CDC position.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Let's work together and share what we find through this process. If we let each other know which places are hiring and which are not, we will all benefit.

    ReplyDelete
  83. I have an exam on the first day of the OSD interview. Sux b/c I have a pretty good shot with them...DoD is notorious for not being flexible. If my exam can't get resked, looks like I'll miss out. more to follow...

    ReplyDelete
  84. I also got the OSD email. It's definitely annoying that we have to go through yet another application/screening process. At least in this case, we know that they don't do much hiring and that turning down another desirable position for the slim chance of getting into OSD is probably a big risk.

    ReplyDelete
  85. I posted a message about two days ago saying a couple agencies were not looking to hire at the moment. These include: FBI and NASA

    ReplyDelete
  86. For the person who received information about the Forest Service: Could you share who the contact person was? The "contact person" has been inconsistently listed on PPS. Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  87. Has anyone else had any trouble getting responses from the listed PMF Coordinators at the various agencies? I've emailed several people just to ask if their agencies were hiring PMF's this year and I haven't heard back from anyone.

    ReplyDelete
  88. State and USAID coordinators are non-responsive so far. Emailed them on Friday.

    ReplyDelete
  89. I'd say that I have heard back from about a third of them. Most of them say to check PPS. For those of you looking outside DC, I have been told by those that have responded to me that it is going to be slim pickings. For the person interested in the USFS, I was not the original poster, but was told by them that all their positions would be on the PPS.

    Good luck everybody!

    ReplyDelete
  90. Did the CDC rep say that CDC wouldn't have the money to fund any of the positions, or just the one you had submitted your resume for? I submitted my resume for one today, and am really excited about the possibility of getting it. Should I call and see if they are not funding that position as well so I can move on?

    ReplyDelete
  91. This thread is getting long and its hard to mentally organize all the information of who's hiring and who's not, so I made a Google Spreadsheet. If you hear back from an agency, go ahead and update the spreadsheet. I included 2 comment sections in case there is conflicting information:

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlmrML5jprGndGhNUG51cHBpcUFrTmRkS0pzSV9zTVE&hl=en

    ReplyDelete
  92. Awesome resource. I will bookmark this spreadsheet and update it with what I hear.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Re CDC: The rep did not say CDC would not have the $ to fund all positions, just for that specific one. You will note that the the CDC has different contact people listed for the various positions, so it's unlikely he could speak for the agency as a whole.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Thank you so much @ 11:59

    @ April 3, 2011 3:46 PM
    Check out Sibley Memorial Hospital - they have a well-thought of delivery unit.

    ReplyDelete
  95. This spreadsheet is the most helpful thing I have seen so far. Everybody chip in!

    ReplyDelete
  96. Wow. Thank you Anonymous for making the spreadsheet!

    ReplyDelete
  97. Hmm, based on initial results it looks like finalists are going to get royally screwed this year. What are the chances that placement is below 50%?

    ReplyDelete
  98. Re: spreadsheet. You're welcome ;) I love Google-- makes my life more efficient :)

    I feel like the lack of a budget is cause for uncertainty. Perhaps once a budget is passed, they will know how many finalists they can take and then post listings. Chin up. They can't shut the govt down until March 2012 ;)

    ReplyDelete
  99. Re: Spreadsheet. I just reordered it alphabetically. If you add, could you type the full name and not the acronym? Thanks!

    If someone has time, it'd be great if you could add in all the agencies alphabetically, and we can go through and highlight the ones that haven't been contacted. (Sorry, in London, its bedtime for me!)

    ReplyDelete
  100. Question: if any agency says they are only hiring for administrative positions (like budget people), would that include policy?

    ReplyDelete
  101. Looking at the spreadsheet, I think we're just gonna have to respond to what's on PPS and not bother the agencies before they've posted anything. Hopefully Washington can get a budget passed and get everyone out of this limbo

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  102. I update the FS information in the spreadsheet. John Kusano (Senior Staff Assistant, Office of the Deputy Chief,US Forest Service) sent out the message with an attachment of all of the positions. However, each of the positions had a different contact person. These contact people do not match the contact people on PPS.

    ReplyDelete
  103. Thanks for the spreadsheet! I think not duplicating efforts will save us all a great deal of time.

    Does anyone actually have an interview lined up at the job fair yet?

    ReplyDelete
  104. Has anyone tried to update their resume on the fax system? I sent it in early Friday and have not seen my documents updated on application manager. This seems to me to be an unconscionable use of antiquated technology, and has made a couple of my classmates laugh and ask what kind of program I am applying for!

    Has anyone had better luck?

    ReplyDelete
  105. This spreadsheet has me worrying. Is anyone hiring?

    ReplyDelete
  106. Geez, I sure wish someone would add all of the agency names to the spreadsheet. I am off to bed. Hopefully this is done before I wake up
    ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  107. @PMF Fellow:

    How does this year's PPS and speculated lack of hiring compare to last year?

    ReplyDelete
  108. It looks like only the ones posting on PPS are definitely hiring. I am guessing most are just waiting to see what the budget looks like when it passes. I imagine if it passes right before the fair, it might be a blood bath that week in the convention center.

    ReplyDelete
  109. My faxed updated resume is showing as posted in Application Manager. (Faxed it yesterday)

    ReplyDelete
  110. @Rebecca: re, your post about a hospital. The closest one to the convention center is George Washington University Hospital.

    If you're interested in international development, you should also try contacting reps at the Millennium Challenge Corporation (I know they have a PMF right now and have had previously) or the African Development Fund. To find a rep, search USA Jobs for a job post there, then contact that person.

    ReplyDelete
  111. I also submitted my resume on Friday morning and nothing has been updated on the application manager.

    ReplyDelete
  112. How have 19 people already received AND accepted positions?! Take a look at the finalist list and sort by status. Funny, I emailed Stanley Greene and received no response. I guess he already made his selections.... OPM's PMF Program seems to be a worthless enterprise.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Those 19 are from last year's PMF class. Their start dates are sometime this year.

    ReplyDelete
  114. Agree that the 19 are from last year's PMF class, even though they show up on the 'sorted by name' list as well. I have been in contact with some of the HR directors in offices listed as having hired PMFs and I can confirm that they have definitely not hired PMFs from this year's class. I'm guessing OPM just transferred the names of people who were hired last year but have entry dates this year from last year's to this year's list.

    ReplyDelete
  115. To those who faxed in an updated resume - have you actually viewed your faxed resume through application manager? I just did, and mine looks awful. Not the actual information, haha, but the quality of the document. It's blurry and smudged, like it didn't transmit and post very well. Is that the case with anyone else?

    ReplyDelete
  116. Mine looks awful, too. There are dark lines going through the middle of the page, and hard to read.

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  117. Response from Customs & Border Protection: "Due to the short notice provided by PMF, we are still in the process of determing which positions will be posted by US Customs and Border Protection for this year's job fair. Please monitor the PMF site for those positions and follow the application instructions provided."

    ReplyDelete
  118. When you faxed your resume did you print it directly from the USAJOBS website? I originally did this, but for some reason every time I would print it from the view screen it would start half a page down and would include the web address across the top and bottom of the page. I did not want it to look like this when it was uploaded to the website, so I copied and pasted it into a Word document for printing purposes. Do you think this may have been the reason why it was not uploaded? Should I just print it directly off the website?

    ReplyDelete
  119. I printed mine directly from USAJOBS. At first, the page breaks didn't look good, kind of cut of some text. I fussed around with my information, and eventually the page were okay. If a faxed, updated resume looks awful, though, that's OPM's fault, which kind of pisses me off. I don't want agencies looking at that, but hopefully they'll realize it's the fault of OPM's automatic update system.

    Based on the advice of a current PMF friend, I'm bringing hard copies of both my USAJOBS resume and my normal two-page resume to the job fair, along with a number of writing samples and folders with my name and contact info, ready to hand out at the end of successful interviews.

    ReplyDelete
  120. @7:21, I don't think that matters. I didn't use USAJOBS to make mine, and it was uploaded.

    ReplyDelete
  121. I called OPM about the web addresses at the top, they told me that was really common and not to worry about it. Looks cheap though. I ended up emailing it to myself in Outlook and then copying it to word to print out. Looks much better, the fax copy was terrible though.

    I am just blown away by how they do it. Did anyone else assume that OCR (optical character recognition) software would be updating our nice (software) resume instead of posting the fax itself? I'm sure they OCRed it to make it searchable, but come on, they are giving the faxed copies to agencies??

    No wonder agencies seem to be passing on PMF's... OPM is using multidecades old technology to present us, a shiny resume elsewhere will psychologically feel so much better to a hiring manager, and that could be the difference!

    ReplyDelete
  122. Hmm... something about the Ryan plan makes me think they won't be resolving the budget by Friday...

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  123. Apparently when Boehner approached the idea of another continuing resolution at a closed door Republican meeting he was met with quite a bit of resistance... so that is hopeful. I'm not optimistic, though. Hopefully the "three party talk" today will help.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Has anyone heard anything from NIH?

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  125. Anyone else worried about the looming shutdown?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/05/government-shutdown-threa_n_845014.html?igoogle=1

    and

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/05/135143494/white-house-budget-meeting-underway?ft=1&f=1001

    It's starting to look like it might take quite a while before an agreement is reached.

    ReplyDelete
  126. Can't be making any agencies put anything on PPS. :(

    ReplyDelete
  127. Seriously, 1000 word cover letter and a 2 page essay on a topic related to DOD? Seriously, W-T-F mate

    ReplyDelete
  128. So sad isn't it, but I guess when 850 people are going for 60ish confirmed spots (that turn out not to be so confirmed--CDC)agencies can make them do whatever they want!

    ReplyDelete
  129. The DOD application makes me laugh, and cry, but I'll probably still do it. Do you think a topic on human rights and torture is appropriate? :)

    The budget mess is exactly that, a mess. The scenario I see playing out is that positions are going to be posted in fall in increasing numbers. Once this budget is passed, it only carries through to September, when the next battle occurs. So my question is - how many of you are going to hold off on taking other jobs in the meantime? Is it worth it to you to get a PMF spot, or will the lack of position force a less than ideal spot, or a job elsewhere?

    ReplyDelete
  130. @9:34 AM - They basically have until the end of the day today to reach a deal, or the government shuts down on Saturday. And don't think there aren't operations that occur on Saturdays.

    If the government does shut down, I'll post an open thread for all of us to commiserate.

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  131. It sounds like the consensus then is that its better NOT to fax in an updated resume. Correct?

    ReplyDelete
  132. I didn't fax one in. How much will your resume have changed in the time since you applied? Some, I guess, but it certainly wasn't worth the effort for me to fax anything.

    ReplyDelete
  133. @10:09 - If the agencies I'm interested in working for are not hiring, or the government shuts down, I'm probably going to take a position in the private sector. I can't afford to wait around for another 5-6 months without a paycheck.

    ReplyDelete
  134. So what's the consensus on the job fair if the government shuts down? Postponement? Cancellation?

    ReplyDelete
  135. Chaos. This close to the fair, even a week shut down will mean they can't prepare. If it happens I say postponed until further notice, probably in late May.

    ReplyDelete
  136. I got a summer internship and will just be riding out the storm, hoping for a bright light in the fall...

    ReplyDelete
  137. My resume changed quite a bit. I graduated in December, got my final GPA, won an award from my school, started a new job, and more. That's enough to warrant a new resume, and now the electronic update looks terrible. Fun! Well, at least when I reach out to agencies/points-of-contact myself, I can send a pristine version.

    ReplyDelete
  138. I'm in the same boat... way to go OPM! Anyone know if there is a technical reason that application manager can't accept updates from USAJobs, or is it just a "our systems dont talk to each other because we hadn't thought of that" kind of issue?

    ReplyDelete
  139. It's definitely possible to send updated documents from USAJOBS to Application Manager. I've done it myself. In this case it may be that the job has to be open or something on USAJOBS for the update to go through. Is there no way to login to Application Manager directly and upload a new copy of your resume? Otherwise, yeah, faxing is such a lame method.

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  140. You all know there are free online faxing programs right? It's not that hard ;)

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  141. Looks like no deal on the budget. It also looks like most places who haven't posted on PPS are not hiring until the budget is sorted out. So I won't waste my time and just apply to the positions that are posted and are definitely going through.

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  142. Ah, nothing like immediately converting bright, energetic, hopeful young people in cynics - thanks tea party!

    ReplyDelete
  143. More delays until the budget is worked out! That's okay, we are used to delays by this point, right?

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  144. This has been the most stressful process of my life and it isn't getting any better at this point lol. Until I secure a position, Murphy's Law will be in the back of my mind.

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  145. Wow, if this has been the most stressful process of your life....

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  146. tea party boomers vs everyone else

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  147. What is interesting, is that one agency said PMF's are outside of the hiring freeze. In fact, they thought they would hire more PMFs, because they are outside of the process and they need workers.

    If the government shuts down, let's still all hang out--we can go sight-seeing, try and meet up with Ehab, watch Mean Girls, and hang. = )

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  148. @3:55 - Word. If the fair gets cancelled, lucky me, I still have a prepaid flight and hotel. I suppose Plan B is a three-day mid-week bender, where I'll end up yelling at passing Republican Congressmen until someone from OPM kicks me out of the PMF program. I better come up with a Plan C...

    ReplyDelete
  149. I faxed over my updates, but it hasn't been processed. Maybe they will lose it, or attach it to someone else's account and spare me the horror of a messed up resume. Seriously, your resume is your first line of marketing materials and its appearance makes a huge difference in if it will even be looked at...if you are sorting through hundreds of resumes, would you stop to look at the ones that look awful?

    Damn Tea Party!!! I have a feeling this will be a rough year for PMFs.

    ReplyDelete
  150. Response from Broadcasting Board of Governors: "Thank you for your interest in an opportunity with the Broadcasting Board of Governors. Unfortunately, no decision has been made to date on whether or not our agency will be participating in the Job Fair and/or hiring individuals from the 2011 PMF Class. Please note that all PMF opportunities will be posted on the PMF site as they become available. Again, thank you for your interest in the BBG. Have a good day."

    ReplyDelete
  151. Anyone up for commenting on the best and worst case scenerios regarding the job fair and possible government shutdown?

    It is evident that we are already being impacted by the budget uncertainties. Does anyone have an interview lined up?

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  152. I'm going to take a shot every time I hear a Republican say that cutting spending and tax breaks for the rich will create jobs. I will be drunk very soon.

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  153. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1muFDbIS91g/S-BzsML8I3I/AAAAAAAAB1Y/y512Cf_SLkM/s1600/reaganomics.jpg

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  154. @8:19 - Awesome. All that's missing in that photo is everybody smoking cigars made of rolled up $100 bills.

    ReplyDelete
  155. For those hating the Tea Party right about now:

    http://www.leftycartoons.com/the-24-types-of-libertarian/

    ReplyDelete
  156. LOVING the left-leaning comments here, people! We will get along very well in a couple weeks... that is if our elected leaders can get control of their pissing contest.

    ReplyDelete
  157. @8:11, you will be drunk, and they will still be wrong!

    @10:00, Me too!

    ReplyDelete
  158. Yep, glad I used my miles to book my plane tickets, and the change fee is now more than what I paid originally. Grrrr.

    Might just take the trip anyway and sleep on the doorsteps of the agencies I applied to with my resume taped to my forehead.
    What do ya think? outgoing or overbearing ;)

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  159. I'm assuming the email the CDC sent out was also another mass email? It is good at least to know some agencies are still looking to hire..

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  160. I didn't get one, so it might have been just to those with proper backgrounds.

    Positions are still being posted to the PPS today, but they are trickling in. I wonder if OPM is disappointed with the number so far posted, or if this is in line with what they expected.

    Any current PMFs remember if the PPS was fairly full or if it looked as it does now at this point last year?

    Also, I hear agencies are beginning to prep for a shutdown, is that accurate you guys in DC?

    ReplyDelete
  161. In other news, good job Susan Johnston for reappearing to question what will happen if the government shuts down. Too bad facebook clearly ignored the question...

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  162. I was told by a person at Dept. of State that allot of agencies don't use the PPS prior to the job fair because it complicates the hiring process. I think they have to give all the applicants a fair shot, and would not be able to offer someone a job on the spot at the fair if it was posted on PPS.

    ReplyDelete
  163. Yes, the government is preparing for a shutdown. They are putting plans in place "in case" a budget consensus isn't reached by Friday. If there is a shutdown, all non-essential personnel will be furloughed until funding (through a budget) is reinstated.

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  164. When a job is posted on PPS do we then have to find it on usajobs.gov to properly apply? Or do we send our cover letter and resume to the contact listed on the entry?

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  165. State (and other agencies) don't use the PPS system b/c of the innundation of applicants. Last year there were over 400 for 1 position.

    ReplyDelete
  166. Where can I find a list of bureaus/offices within State to which I can apply?

    ReplyDelete
  167. http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/dos/1718.htm

    ReplyDelete
  168. I am a volunteer Certified Small Business Counselor at SCORE (Small Business Admin). If there is going to be a government shutdown, we have been instructed to cease all volunteer activity as of Friday, April 8.

    ReplyDelete
  169. People should do a little research before posting silly questions on here.

    ReplyDelete
  170. FYI, I called OPM and asked about the govt shutdown. The lady sighed and said ""we are continuing to monitor the situation and are continuing to plan the job fair. If something changes, we will let the finalists know as soon as we know."

    I guess we'll see what happens Friday.

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  171. has anyone yet received any word from state after sending resume and list of agencies to the main coordinator?

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  172. I sent my resume to the State PMF coordinator yesterday and received an e-mail today from an office asking for an interview at the job fair.

    ReplyDelete
  173. Has anyone asked to get their original resume posted instead of the updated version? I faxed in my update and it looks like total crap...great!

    ReplyDelete
  174. @5:16. I'd rather not say.

    I feel like we're starting to make a little progress on PPS. Nine postings went up today. And from what I've heard it sounds like many agencies either don't post on PPS at all or post them at the last minute.

    Maybe I'm being too optimistic though...

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  175. @4:44 - I just got the same auto reply that I got the first time I emailed state. I hope the imminent shutdown doesn't mean that people are going home a few days early.

    ReplyDelete
  176. @5:26

    Would of course help to know if others have heard from bureaus/office to which i can only blindly trust the main coordinator sent my resume.

    ReplyDelete
  177. @ 5:37, it was probably the Legal Adviser's Office. Only a law student would reply, "I'd rather not say."

    ReplyDelete
  178. @5:37 -- I doubt L hires through PMF. They have their own "honors program" for entry level grads. Plus, hell would have to freeze over before Harold hired a non-Yale grad. There's only one Yale Law student on the finalist list, and apparently she has already accepted a position (probably a 2010 PMF).

    And yes only a law student would reply with "I'd rather not say."

    ReplyDelete
  179. lol @7:24 must be getting his J.D. from University of Phoenix. L does not have a "legal honors" program for new grads.

    ReplyDelete
  180. Also, Alison Barg told me State would "hire close to 60 PMFs...hopefully."

    ReplyDelete
  181. @PMFellow:

    1) If we are contacting agencies--whether it be re: PPS, the general agency coordinator, or a specific agency dept.--should we be sending a cover letter as well?

    2) Once you accept a PMF position with an agency, can you accept a later offer from another agency? I know that some PMFs continue to get offers and I know of some that have accepted later offers and reneged on the original ones. Thoughts on this?

    Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  182. I have a classmate (law student) who currently works at the Legal Adviser's Office and they are definitely not hiring PMFs.

    ReplyDelete
  183. @7:34 -- sorry it's a "3 year new attorney" program. Same f**king thing. Do a little research before you make disparaging remarks and look like an a**.

    http://www.state.gov/s/l/3190.htm#how

    "New attorneys initially receive 3-year appointments. At the end of that period, subject to continuing successful performance, appointments are made permanent. Prior full-time Federal service as a practicing attorney is counted toward meeting this initial requirement."

    ReplyDelete
  184. @ 7:26, calm down. A non-permanent position, i.e., 3-year appointment, does not a "legal honors program" make. Only a few federal agencies, such as DOJ and IRS, offer such programs. A non-lawyer would say such a distinction is tantamount to splitting hairs; a lawyer understands and appreciates the meaning of words. Grow up, dude. And good luck!

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  185. @8:07 -- they may call it something different, but functionally (something lawyers do all the time--consider the functionality of a law/program versus what it says it is on paper) the L program and DOJ/IRS programs are very similar. They are entry-level hiring programs. Sure, they may call it a "3 year appointment," but like the PMF program I doubt very many people get booted after 3 years.

    Moreover, there are a number of agencies with honors programs (or the functional equivalent of an honors program which is essentially a hiring pathway for recent grads w/ no experience--what L does) (from the Arizona Honors Handbook):
    US Army Corps of Engineers
    CIA
    Homeland Security
    Comptroller of the Currency
    EPA
    EEOC
    FAA
    FDIC
    FTC (Bureau of Competition)
    HUD
    Interior-Office of the Solicitor
    IRS
    DOJ
    Labor-Office of the Solicitor
    NLRB
    NRC
    US Office of Government Ethics
    SEC

    Thanks for the condescending post, though. Always fun!

    ReplyDelete
  186. Ah, the considerate, nuanced dialog of the internet. Glad to see we're all supporting each other in our hopes to serve the public and try to do a little bit of good.

    Anyway, I contacted FEMA about the position they put up today. I'll let you know what they say. So far, the only really positive, "thanks for contacting us! let's set up an interview" response I've gotten has been from the Forest Service.

    Anyone reached out to the National Park Service?

    ReplyDelete
  187. Hi all,
    the spreadsheet is getting a bit large, so the first comment column will now be a log of comments according to date. if you make any updates, put it in the second column. This will have our daily changes, so people dont have to go back and read through everything to see what they missed. Remember to put dates on your update.
    -Spreadsheet creator

    ReplyDelete
  188. Kind of funny (in a not funny way) -- looks like we're definitely not the only ones who are slow to receive information:

    "William Dougan, president of the National Federation of Federal Employees, sent President Obama a letter on Wednesday asking for the immediate release of the furlough lists [of essential employees], apparently to no avail."

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  189. Of course the Forest Service is happy to hear from anybody. "You want to work in Alamogordo? Really?"

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  190. Considering the job market, Alamogordo for two years and then the opportunity to move elsewhere, while receiving excellent pay & benefits and being part of a supportive program - doesn't sound so bad.

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  191. I contacted the National Park Service. They said no dice. They have no plans to hire any PMFs.

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  192. Are any agencies known to participate in the student loan repayment programs for PMFs?

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  193. There is a list online of every federal agency that uses loan repayment funds. It also provides the job title of each employee who receives funds and how much they receive.

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  194. lol, people are fighting it out to edit the DoS entry on the spreadsheet. the update on PPS (2:26PM 4/7/11) is that they are no longer collecting resumes, since they got too many. Poor Alison Barg.

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  195. I find it puzzling that State couldn't handle the resume traffic. They are one of the most popular places to work for during every PMF cycle. You would think that by now, they would have a system in place to deal with all of the interested finalists. Instead, they're taking the "don't call us, we'll call you" approach. So much for trying to be proactive in our job searches.

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